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Featured The War on the Charismatic Movement

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Oct 22, 2013.

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  1. Pass out tracts/ open air / evangelize on a Charismatic churches property

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Write Letters, emails, post on blogs, and the like to Charismatics

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. Phone and visit Charismatics and warn them of the error of their ways

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Pray weekly for the multitude of souls lost in the movement

    5 vote(s)
    83.3%
  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I didn't vote in the poll because I did not see an option that was comfortable with.

    But I want to challenge you to rethink your statement, "I see it moreso as God's place than mine."

    God alone can save souls but that doesn't mean that we should not witness.

    God alone can build churches but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't start programs to that end.

    God uses means to accomplish his purposes. God uses us.

    It is almost never right to say, "Well, this important issue... just let God take care of it."

    We are the Body of Christ. We are his hands, his feet, his lips. What he is doing in this world he is doing largely through us- the church.

    It is our responsibility to effect change where it needs to be effected. We understand that God is the source of our power to do so and we give him all the glory when the task progresses. But we do not alleviate the responsibility we bear to be his instruments to accomplish his purposes in this world.

    We ought to do it with grace and warmth when possible, but we ought to be as angry against deadly false doctrine as God is since we represent him.
     
  2. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    I never, never said not to do anything. I've tried to make this clear several times already.

    I guess I'm just coming at all this from a completely different angle.

    Anyway, I have to go to bed. I have work tomorrow.
     
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I won't. Like many one here who are sold out to dogmas and doctrines that have bent their minds to the point of adhering only to a form of the true gospel, so it is with the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. "Battling" them? How? Will it change their minds, or just tick them off? Will it result in conversions? Perhaps one or two. "Battling?" I've been in real battles. There are no winners there.

    Love them. That's the only way to convince people of their error. One can love in a stern way with alienating. "Battling"? No. That doesn't work. For that reason, the only answer I can give in the poll is the pray. None of the others are particularly "loving."
     
  4. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!
     
  5. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    This is absolutely the wrong kind of thinking. The Bible says the opposite of this. Jude, for one of countless available examples, says to EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH.
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    That doesn't mean approaching titularly brothers and sisters in Christ with a club in one hand and a Bible in the other, saying, "You're wrong, ya gotta believe this," which is precisely what I got out of the OP.

    But then again, why should I be surprised you would take the exact opposite tack than me?
     
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Again, I did not vote in the poll that evangelist provided because I am not comfortable with any of the options he provided in the poll.

    But what is not congruent to Scripture is the idea that we just simply "love" everybody and it will all be lollipops and gumdrops.

    And you have to stop thinking about attacking PEOPLE when attacking ideas. Yes, many people will TAKE it as though you are attacking them. You can't help that. But it does not change the fact that God's Word has told us in no uncertain terms that we are absolutely supposed to attack ideas that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God. It is unfortunate that people take it as though we are attacking them personally, but we don't get to shirk our duties just because they take it wrong.

    The Great Commission is about making Jesus Christ Lord of planet Earth. The way we do that is by persuading the inhabitants of the Earth that Jesus Christ is Lord. To persuade people, you have to make a case for the truth and you have to argue against error.

    Loving people, feeding the hungry, clothing and sheltering the poor, helping the sick, etc... are all things we ought to want to do and they do open doors for us whereby we can persuade people to embrace the Gospel. But we don't get to say, "Well, since there are some jerks out there clubbing people with the Bible, I'll just react against that by hardly opening it. I'll just love people."

    You can feed them while you confront their false doctrines. You can shelter them and minister to their sicknesses while you condemn their errors. You can weep with them while you dismantle their ideas. But you don't get to do one to the exclusion of the other- not and do your Bible duty.
     
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Charismatics and Pentecostals are not the enemy. They are brothers and sister in Christ. Their souls, if they believe in Jesus, are not at stake.

    Dr MacArthur's conference was wrong in tone and conviction.
     
  9. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Christ is love and judgment. Nowhere are we given both roles. We are only to love God and our neighbors.

    Surely, Luke, you aren't so naive as to be unaware that people's ideas are often their identity. You seem to express that here, but then miss your own point. They cannot separate the two. So when you "attack" ideas, you are "attacking" them. There is a reason that words used to describe war are often used to describe such efforts. They are all-out assaults on deeply held principles and concepts, and people cannot separate themselves from the intangibles that make up their worldview and philosophy of life. To do so would be to admit what for every single one of us is unthinkable: That we have made mistakes in choosing our belief system.

    I want you to show me a passage in the Bible that specifically -- or even generally -- tells us to "attack" ideas that are held by fellow Christians. You cannot successfully deny that Charismatics and Pentecostals are our brothers and sisters. Heck, I'd take an indirect reference. But you won't find one. We are to love one another, not attack them.

    Luke, my brother, you have taken the wrong attitude. It is more than "unfortunate," it is the way God made people, and when we alienate them, we destroy any ability we may have at bringing correction to them.

    Luke, Luke, Luke ...

    The people you are talking about attacking are already evangelized. They already believe. They aren't lost. They are "found"! They are not blind. They SEE!!! We don't attack them. We gently, lovingly, but firmly show them their error. We don't beat them up. We bind their wounds. We've got to understand that, or we will go through life wondering why our efforts are shunned, scorned, and why people flee from us.
     
    #29 thisnumbersdisconnected, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2013
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Who said anything about judgment?

    I am saying what the Bible says. We are to "demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

    You either believe the Bible or not. It seems you feel you have improved upon the Bible's way of dealing with false and dangerous doctrines.

    But you've got to choose either your own personal preference or the Bible.

    You've got to choose.

    Yes, for ignorant people that is true. Ignorant people cannot separate the two. That's why most people are offended when you attack an idea they hold. They are too ignorant to be able to NOT take it personally.

    But see, you could be a liberal and me a conservative. I could think you are a fine person, a good father, a faithful Christian, a good husband, a productive member of society, etc... and still think your politics are terrible. I can attack liberalism without attacking you personally. Now, if you are stupid, you may TAKE it personally. But I cannot help that. It is still my duty to do my little part of moving the world from where it is to where I think it needs to be.

    I cannot help it if insecure and ignorant people take it personally. If they give me a chance, I'll try to prove to them that it is not personal. I'll serve them, bless then, help them any way I can. But I'm not going to quit doing my duty just because they are stupid.

    See, you are attacking my idea here. My idea is that you ought to confront ideas that are contrary to the knowledge of Christ. But I am not taking it personally.

    We need to teach the world to be that way.

    I've done it plenty. We all need to do it from time to time. And you and I are supposed to challenge people to do it.


    I share one above. The word is demolish. Now, I've shown you that. Do you yield?

    Are you willing to accept the Bible or will you stubbornly hold to those ideas you prefer?

    That's why we try to be warm as long as they will let us. But when they stubbornly set their heels- we have to do what we have to do to "demolish" their dangerous ideas.
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    You could not be more wrong. Many of them are NOT brothers in Christ and even if they ALL WERE brothers in Christ their error is still horrendous and dangerous and ought to be confronted with all vehemence.
     
  12. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    No you are wrong sir. You need to pray and do battle for its what Jesus did! You think Jesus just sat around with battling the leaders of his day???? Thats not what He did and what you suggest is not Biblical.
     
  13. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    What?? Is this being spoken by someone whom says that his church teaches some of Mac's books? How do you know the conference was wrong? True I do not agree that all Charismatics are not saved and Mac definitely leaned in that direction, however most are dead wrong in their New Revelation and Mystical views.
     
  14. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    No sir, I am not.

    Jesus never "battled" those who believed in Him. You need to figure out what you're actually talking about here. You don't know who the Charismatics and Pentecostals of today are, do you?

    The ones with which He did battle were not His brothers and sisters, or His "lost sheep." They were enemies of God, wearing the refined robes of righteousness that they dishonored. You aren't talking about enemies. You are talking about brothers and sisters. We don't battle them. We love them. How many times must I say that for it to sink in?
     
    #34 thisnumbersdisconnected, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2013
  15. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Why not? What is wrong with praying for them? What is wrong with confronting them in love? Have you read the book "The Jesus you Cant Ignore?" Its a real winner and will teach you that you need to boldly confront error. MacArthur his a homerun with that one.
     
  16. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Your options were not that general. They were more specific like "open air preach to them," etc...

    Sure you should "confront them in love."

    That was not one of the options.

    The question is HOW should you confront them in love.

    Many of us do not put the premium on the open air thing that you do.

    I like it, btw, when it is done well. I have done it, myself.

    But it is not the primary means today to progress the Kingdom.

    If you had put up an option like, "Preach against it fervently in your pulpits, educate your people in classes and discipleship settings on how to confront them and show them their error, write articles in your local paper, invite ministers to your church for friendly, Christian debates on the matter, write against it in your blog, hold a well advertised conference on the subject at your church, catechize your children in your church so they don't grow up and get duped by that mess, and do all this while being the most compassionate church in your community" then I would have voted gladly.
     
  17. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Well all those things are good. I should have had a "other option" thanks for informing me of these things.
     
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