1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Woman of Revelation 12:1

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Zenas, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

    May 7, 2007
    Likes Received:
    "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars."

    There are various ideas about the identity of this woman. I have heard at least five theories: (1) she is the nation of Israel; (2) she is Eve; (3) she is the virgin Mary; (4) she is the Church; and (5) she may represent a combination of two or more of these things.

    Would anyone like to share his ideas on this? Also, do you think John understood this vision or was he merely recording what appeared to him?
  2. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Nov 4, 2005
    Likes Received:
    In order to define who is the woman in ch 12, we have to read the verses closely.

    1) The woman gave birth to Man-child who is going to rule the world with Iron Rod.

    2) The woman liveth on the earth until the End-times

    3) The woman had the crown of 12 stars, clothed with the sun, and the moon, and 12 stars reminds us of the Israelite tribes.

    4) The church didn't give birth to Jesus, but Jesus gave birth to the church. However, we must note that there was the church in the primitive form since Adam and Eve since they were saved after they committed sins. The Lord must have given them the leather coats after the sinless animals were killed and shed the blood ( Gen 3:21) This was taught to Cain and Abel as well, but only Abel obeyed this truth.
    There was the church in the wilderness ( Acts 7:38). However, the visible and clearer church started only after the death and resurrection of Jesus, starting from the Pentecost.
    Now we must recognize the NT church was formed by the Holy Spirit.

    5) When we think about the birth of Jesus Christ who created all things at the time of Creation, and whom Moses served and valued more precious than all the treasures of Egypt ( Heb 11:26) and King David served and called " Lord" ( Psalm 110:1), we must remember that He was not produced by Mary, but that Jesus was BORN by the HOly Spirit ( Mt 1:20). The word used in Mt 1:20 is not Sulambanow ( Conceive as in Luke 1:31) but genao ( beget, begotten, born). Jesus was born by the Holy Spirit before He came out of Mary ( Mt 1:26, Gal 4:4). This coincides with Heb 1:5 as we notice the continuation of the same person, Son of God which was mentioned in John 8:58. Jesus identified Himself as the same person who existed before Abraham. Mary was a creature created by Jesus as we read Col 1:16-18, Joh 1:3.

    6) Therefore it is very much likely that the woman indicates the Holy Spirit dwelling in the church of Christ.

    7) If we keep in mind such understanding, then we can check further as the following.

    The woman has been protected in the wilderness ( world), she has been there for 1,260 days since the Ascension of Jesus until the end times. This 1260 days are 3 and a half years and the same period during which Jesus proclaimed the Gospel as a prophet, until he offered Himself as the Priest after the Melchizedek.

    Satan tried to swallow her with a huge flood, but the Earth ( New Earth and New Heaven) assisted Her, then she disappeared, and only the Remnants are left at the end of the ch 12.
    This means, I believe, there will be the Rapture of the Believers who have the Holy Spirit in their hearts. This can be confirmed with Rev 11. because Rev 11 and Rev 12 are the same summary of 1260 days of witnessing.
    In Rev 11:11-13, the 2 witnesses finish their ministry after 1260 years, then were killed but after 3 and half days, they were resurrected and brought up( ascended up) to the heaven ( Re 11:12) and the Remnants gave glory to the God.
    ch 11 describes the same period as ch 12, and they are like Gospel Luke and Gospel Matthew for the same period. Those key people, 2 Olive Trees, 2 Candlesticks, 2 Witnesses are all explained well in Zechariah 4 which explains 2 Witnesses are the people serving the Lord all over the world, not the specific 2 persons like Elijah and Moses, or Elijah and Enoch.

    The key and true believers of the church will be the 2 witnesses and they will be raptured, and there will be Remnants of the Woman's seed.
    The rapture is well described in 11:11-13.

    The rest of the chapters are focusing on the struggle between the Dragon, Beast, Harlot and the Remnants of the Woman's seed.

    Rev 11 starts from verse 3, and Rev 11:1 and 2 belongs to ch 10 as the division was wrong which was done around 16 century. chapter 10 is the same as Rev 11 and 12. Therefore Rev 10, 11,12 are like Gospel Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

    Then we can understand that the Holy Spirit had the glory of 12 stars since He worked for the church of Israel in the wilderness, He worked since the Creation ( Genesis 1:2)
    The man-child was born by the Holy Spirit ( was brought into the world by the Holy Spirit) When Jesus was tested by Satan, He was brought to the wilderness by the Holy Spirit.
    Then it is clear that the woman mean the Holy Spirit dwelling in the Believers ( church).
    #2 Eliyahu, Aug 20, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
  3. Ulsterman

    Ulsterman New Member

    Aug 13, 2002
    Likes Received:
    The woman is Israel. Tribulation is about God's dealings with Israel and ultimately their restoration as a nation. The woman gave birth to a man child. As the previous post pointed out, before it became virtually incomprehensible, the church did not give birth to Christ, but Christ to the church. Sorry, but the church did not exist in the O.T. for it was a "mystery" something unknown, and unrevealed on the O.T. economy. Rather, salvation is of the Jews, and Christ was born out of Israel. The 12 stars relate well to Joseph's vision of Israel in Genesis 37. Isaiah 54:6 states, "For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God." Then there is Hosea 2:14, speaking of Israel which states, "Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her." and Micah 4:9, again prophesying of Israel, "Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail."

    The cap fits. The woman is Israel.
  4. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

    May 7, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Thanks, Ulsterman. That is about as clear and logical as anything I ever read on the subject.
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Non Baptist Christian
    There is only one problem - the "sin problem".

    there is only one solution "the gospel".

    Sinners since the days of Adam have had to choose to either accept the Gospel and the new birth -- to become "the people of God" or to remain in rebellion against God.

    There is "nothing else".
    No "other gospel"
    no "other way to be a child of God".

    The "nation church" started by God at Sinai is indeed the Israel of God - "for they are not all Israel who are children of the flesh but the children of the PROMISE" Rom 9 - spiritual Israel is comprised of the saints in all ages.

    He is not a Jew who is one "outwardly but he is a Jew who is one inwardly and circumcision is of the heart by the Holy Spirit" Romans 2.

    One group of "saints in all ages".

    The saints in Heb 11 held up as examples in the NT to NT saints - it is OT SAINTS! One group in ALL ages.

    1Peter 1 points out that the saints of the OT saw us - saw Christ and saw that we are all one with them.

    1Thess 4 calls them ALL "the DEAD in Christ" and shows that they are ALL raised to life at the appearing of Christ - the last trumpet - the shout of the Archangel.

    Matt 24 shows them as ONE group gathered to Christ at his appearing.

    The woman in Rev 12 represents the saints in the ages prior to the birth of Christ.

    Then you have the birth of Christ.

    You have the dragon - Satan (through pagan Rome) trying to kill the Christ at His birth

    Then you have Christ taken up into heaven.

    Then you have the period of the dark ages - 1260 years of persecution of the saints - the church.

    Rev 12 even calls them "the SAINTS".

    But the earth helps the saints - the church - in that the end of the persecution of the saints is facilitated in part by the discovery of the "New World" the Americas where many flee for the sake of Religious freedom religious liberty.

    Romans 11 pictures this is ONE group in ALL ages.

    John 15 pictures it ias ONE group -- the branches IN CHRIST in all ages.

    in Rev 12 we have the CONTINUATION of that same theme John showed in John 15- the saints in all ages as ONE group.

    in Christ,

    #5 BobRyan, Aug 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2007