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The Word "Faith" Appears Only Twice In The Old Testament.

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Jacob59, Feb 23, 2021.

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  1. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    I am still laughing at how this is just one more oversight in today's default Theology.

    Jeremiah in 2:25 stated God declaring against rebellious Israel, "I have loved strangers, and after them will I go." Here God is speaking about how He will send for the unchosen "strangers" in the highways and byways of the Gentile world to fill His Wedding Banquet, spoken by Jesus in Luke 14.

    The Hebrew works of the First Covenant were supplanted by the Second Covenant of faith apart from Mosaic Law in the Gentiles. This is good news. I do not have to act like a Jew.
     
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  2. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    I fail to see the humor.

    There are several words in the Hebrew that speak of faith. They are translated at times 'believe' in English.

    Point being, faith was just as important throughout the Old Testament in being in a right relation to God.

    Quantrill
     
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  3. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Thanks for checking with me, here.

    The humor is about how current Evangelical theology dominates Christian thought and speech. Today, Christians confidently try to serve God by worshipping the Bible, and their bowl of soup. Their beliefs about righteousness are like a big bowl of soup, where lots of things have been thrown in and cooked to death.

    One component of the Gospel Soup is the thing about faith. In the First Covenant, faith was not an issue. All of God's disclosures were given as Cause/Effect. Obey/Reward. Disobey/Get Pounded into Submission. No faith was needed. Just obedience.

    Today's New Covenant in Christ requires huge faith, because we cannot test any of God's disclosures. The new Kingdom of God is all internal, having nothing in the external World. "My Kingdom is not of this World."

    The core disobedience today for Christians is to not have faith in Jesus' Commands and Parables. The disobedience no longer is in disobeying Mosaic Law.

    The overcooked error of today's soup is that faith was not just as important in the Old Testament. The review of Patriarchal Faith in Hebrews 11 speaks not of the New Covenant Faith, because their faith only "gave a good report" (11:2). Christian faith is a huge, massive change from the First Covenant of Cause/Effect, and brings salvation far more than "a good report."

    The external World today can neither see the Kingdom of God, nor can see its actions. For instance, God's Power on Earth is never reported on the News Media.
     
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 11.
    'By faith Abel........ 'By faith Enoch........' 'By faith Noah........' By faith Abraham.......' 'By faith Sarah..........' 'By faith Isaac.......' By faith Jacob......' 'By faith Joseph.......' 'By faith Moses........' 'By faith the walls of Jericho......' 'By faith the harlot Rahab.........' 'And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and the prophets: who by faith.............. And all these, having received a good testimony by faith.........'
     
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  5. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Not at all the same faith of The New Covenant. It was entirely of its own time.

    No Believer today had the faith of the Patriarchs, certainly not Gentile Christians. Hebrews was specifically written to Jewish Christians.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So I should tear the Old Testament and the book of Hebrews out of my Bible. I don't think so!
    There is only one people of God. The wall of separation has been torn down (Ephesians 2:11-22), and the faith that Old Testament Abraham is the faith that believers, Jew and Gentile alike, have today (Romans 4:1-12; Galatians 3:6-7, 26-29).
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You have no idea what you are talking about. The faith of the OT saints was in the coming Messiah. All of the covenants and laws pointed to Him. I suggest you spend some time being discipled by an older Christian before trying to tackle these topics on your own.
     
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  8. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    No need to panic. Default ideology on faith is good enough.

    There are so many subgroups in The Kingdom, God will have to use 2 seperate sets of 144k each to process everyone into joy.

    I am both temporally and eternally grateful I will never be treated in Judgement and Heaven like a Jew. Jesus is that loving unto Gentiles. He will be condescendingly smiling at us all.

    I have been reading Isaiah and Jeremiah, changing my shorts every 15 minutes. After reading both the Prophets and Gospel from Jesus so many times, I cringe at the thought of having to listen to Jewish thought forms in Heaven for eternity. At most, I will send them nice notes.

    Even as we share the Miracle of Christ, Jewish faith is its own Gospel. They are Chosen, we were yanked from the biways.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    ?
     
  10. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Lol. I sure will continue to do just that.

    When I was a kid, I figured out how these older Preachers used rhetoric devices 50 minutes at a stretch on Sunday mornings every week. It was their job. These days, I know them as something else.

    Think. If you had no personal identity other than a collective national World View tied to 1000 years of God demanding strictest obedience upon threat of death, would you have the same "faith" in Jesus as do today's shallow little Christians? Yes? No?

    Come on.
     
  11. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Yes. Pouring over every grammatic tense and sense. Finding glee in personal discoveries to share with colleges. Worshipping God for the miracle of Hebrew, both loving and hating the Greeks for their precision. Yet, never grasping the Apostles' Hermeneutic because it is beyond Gentile capacity to know.

    True worship of text, as did the Pharisees.
     
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    If it were I, I would look for a Saviour. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for everyone who believes, 'for the Jew first, and also for the Greek.........as it is written, "the just shall live by faith"' (Romans 1:16-17 quoting Habakkuk 2:4). And if you think the Gospel is 'shallow' then you don't know what the Gospel is.
     
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  13. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    So, are you saying the faith of the Patriarchs listed in Hebrews 11 is identical to the faith held today by True Believers?
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 4:3-5 teaches Abraham's faith was just like New Covenant Faith, the key is whether or not an individual's worthless filthy rag faith is credited as righteousness or not by God alone. The fact OT saints had to wait to be made perfect is not germane to their salvation, just to its timing.
     
  15. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Not sure why this is a laughing matter nor why you believe people "worship" their Bibles.

    The Old Testament peoples who will be in heaven will be there NOT because they obeyed the law, but because they had faith. The law only pointed out what sin was - it NEVER saved anyone.

    "The righteous shall live by faith" = Habakkuk 2 [Repeated by Paul three times in the NT]

    The idea of God rescuing people from their sins comes very early in the Old Testament. Abraham was "made righteous" by "faith" long before there was a law. They looked FORWARD to the day when God would saved them. They looked forward to THE "P"rophet [Moses taught that].

    They, as the NT describes, "only saw the promises of God from a distance and welcomed them from a distance." They were "longing for a heavenly country."

    Without faith, there is no salvation - no righteousness. God said very early on that the seed of the woman [Mary] would crush the head of the serpent [the devil].

    Salvation is by faith alone. Whether you were Moses, Esther, Job, Paul, Lydia, or people today.

    It's not rocket science. It's simply faith.
     
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  16. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    "Worthless filthy rag faith?"
    Lol. That faith is a gift from God. Care to upgrade those words to honor The Father? No?

    Abraham's faith was so shallow, he asked in vs. 9 how he would know the Promised inheritance was true. He asked this after hearing the Voice of God, and had some cheek to ask in doubt directly in the presence of God.

    No Scripture mentions such a "key." However, that word can be heard from a number of talkative sources. Preaching can be useful for vocabulary development.
     
    #16 Jacob59, Feb 24, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  17. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    No Scripture states Abraham received Salvation for believing God about the Promised Land.

    It was a tough road, back in the Levant. But, real simple today with faith. Of course, any branch of faith which does not bear fruit will be cut off and burned in judgement.
     
  18. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Yes, you are right. There is no scripture that says Abraham was made or credited with righteousness because he believe God about the Promised Land.

    But, there IS scripture that says after rescuing Lot and defeating five pagan kings and refusing a reward from the king of Sodom, God came to Abraham and said, "Do not fear. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward."

    He explained that he [God] would give him a son and that his descendants could not be counted.

    That's what Abraham believed by faith - that God was his exceedingly great reward.

    That's why God credited Abraham with righteousness and that's why we will see Abraham in the afterlife.
     
  19. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Nothing there either about Abraham receiving Salvation.

    The chatty point is that not all faith is the same. Even Paul speaks about a gift of faith, being of special impact. I am not sure why any discussion is needed, here.
     
  20. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    ~le sigh~

    Any discussion here is not resolving anything. Have a good day.
     
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