Theology of Separation

Think that we can agree to disagree on this area of discussion, as long as we as maturing Christians see this as being a side issue, that we can both see the Bible different on this, but also know that FAR more important is what we as saints would agree on!

 

Well in one incident the couple came to our English service for years, but not our regular Japanese service. I trusted them. But they went behind my back and baptized a whole family in their bathtub, and turned the family against me, whereupon they quit the church. The Charismatic couple then quit too. In another case two living next to my leading couple tried to get them away from going to our church--sheep stealing.

My experiences with Charismatics have been 90% bad. The only good experience I've had was with a Christian martial artist, no connection with church. So, how am I supposed to trust Charismatics? Sorry, no offense to you, but I choose to separate.

 

Hmm. Well, I think what you are calling "body of Christ" discipline is what I'm calling ecclesiastical separation. :smilewinkgrin:

 

This is the position of the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches in Britain:-

http://www.fiec.org.uk/AboutUs/Ecumenism/tabid/640/Default.aspx

Does anyone here practise two-stage separation? That is, do you not only separate from liberal/RC/charismatic churches, but also from anyone who doesn't separate? Then of course, there's three-stage separation.......

Steve

 

Again, where is the biblical mandate to seperate from fellow Christians who hold differing beliefs in"secondary" issues though?

And are ALL those who hold to Gifts contiuning to be seen as being in error/heresy enough to have seperation enforced between the bethren?

 

Question: Does speaking in tongues make you a bettter Christian?

"Can two walk together except they be agreed?" (Amos 2:2)

 

I get into enough trouble speaking in one tongue...

 

I can blunder fluently in both English and Japanese. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Aswe need to realise that any gifts that we might have to use all would come from God, and to be used according to biblical order!

I am one who holds toGifts still operasting today BUT alsothat they MUST fit biblical guidelines, and if not... NOT to be used!

 

This statement sets you apart from all other tongues speakers I've known or heard of. The usual belief is that the gift of tongues makes one a better Christian, closer to God. I reject that doctrine completely, since it leads to spiritual pride, as in "I spoke in tongues, and you won't be clsoe to God until you do too."

Since you are not a pastor, and with your position as stated, I would be able to fellowship with you individually. If you came to my church you would be welcome, but at the first sign you were telling other believers to speak in unknown tongues, you and I would have big problems.

 

That is often called secondary separation. I sometimes judge such cases as you have mentioned individually, but here is my fall-back position. If my church fellowships with fellow-travellers of liberal/RC/Charismatic churches, how will that affect my church people? Will it cause confusion? Will they believe that these heresies are okay? Will they believe, seeing the actions of the pastor of the compromising church, that such compromise is okay?

The truth is, in Hokkaido we have a fellowship of cooperating fundamental pastors, both Japanese and missionaries, that is a great blessing, and I see no need or Biblical mandate to fellowship with compromising churches. And the two other non-independent Baptist churches (Japan Baptist Convention) in our city are liberal and/or compromising.

 

I don't even like to pray with others, I am not sure who they are praying to. I definitely would not pray with a Mormon if he was leading the prayer, and I would be reluctant to pray with a Catholic if he was leading the prayer.

How do others feel about this?

 

My grandfather loved to quote Ps. 119:63, "I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." This is a two-pronged statement. First of all, I'm a companion in prayer or otherwise of those who love and fear God. However, the second statement is a limitation. I will not be a companion of someone who, though they might be saved, is not keeping the precepts of God. A Mormon or Catholic, even if saved, is not keeping the precepts of God by staying in their unbiblical religion. The same goes for a Baptist who is not keeping the precepts of God in other ways.

Separating from such people is actually an act of love. By showing disapproval of their actions and associations you show them the path back to truth. Too many believers nowadays are of the "Good Lord, good devil, let's hang out with anyone who says they are a Christian" variety. We need believers who will stand up against sin.

 

Many liberals argue that Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism are all centered on the God of Abraham, and all can get you to heaven. (Even Billy Graham speculated that practicing other religions would get a person to heaven)

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So praying through Mary, the Pope, St Peter, Mohammad, John Smith, or even to God Himself without believing Jesus is the Messiah, is useless and unbiblical.

I will not participate in prayer unless it is with a Bible believing, New Testament Christian.

John

 

I loved your Grandad, he was a great man of God, I had a subscription to the Sword for years, and purchased many of his pamplets and tracts. I was a big fan of Curtis Hutson too.

What I loved about your Grandad was his love and kindness, you could feel and sense it in everything he wrote. He was a good man.

 

Excactly! John R. Rice was a fundamentalist separatist, but he separated from those he had to separate from with tears in his eyes and a broken heart. Ecclesiastical separation is not a pleasant doctrine, not one that builds joy, but for the purity of the church of Jesus Christ it is absolutely necessary.

 

Yes, but he was a great scholar too. We have been doing a study of the power of the Holy Spirit for several months in SS now, and our pastor is using your Grandad's famous book on the subject. My pastor considers it the best book ever written on the Holy Spirit. I can't tell you how thrilled I have been with this study, I always love to study God's word, but this particular study has been especially exciting and enlightening.

Folks tend to be extreme. You have the Pentacostals who have gone overboard and beyond scripture, then the other extreme is a dead church with no Holy Spirit power. We are now learning if we be obedient, and pray always for the filling of the Holy Spirit we can have real power to win lost souls. Great book.

 

Think what has been a big blessing to me in this regards was that was NOT raised ina Christian home, nor attending any church growing up!
God saved me while attending College, and he has a sense of Humor as he used SCC to witness to me, and I attended local Assemblies of God for many yaers afterwards, BUT always reafd theologies from conservation Evagelicals, listened to solid teachers/pastors, NEVER paid heed to the hagins/Copelands/Hinn etc, to me ALL of them taeching heretical dictrines!

So that is why I am a "baptacostalist" and will not 'force' this on any other Christian, as its my understanding of the Bible, and you might very well have another!

To me secondary issue, not one to seperate divide on, as long as we respect each other postions! can still disagree, but in a Christ like fashion, and focus on essentials that we all shoudl agree upon as baptists!

 

Good point. There are times we must separate, but it shouldn't be a time of joy, but sadness. All to often it seems that people tend to be proud of their separation.