Theoretical sinlessness

That is precisely what I have been arguing... It would be helpful if you took a bit more care in reading posts before you respond, or are you looking for a fight for the sake of the fight?

 

lol...ease up GLFredrick.

I know what you stated, I did indeed read the posts with care. And I disagreed with your assessment of Biblicists's post.

I have been in agreement with many of your posts (with the exception of the one in "The Word" thread...lol).

I actually stated my agreement, if I remember correctly, that the statement you made I agreed with as well.

I do not "look for fights," but am not afraid to debate, either.

Even if we might be in agreement in most things...lol.

God bless.

 

Amy, it is no great victory for God to defeat Satan. God had to become a man and defeat Satan as a man. He had to represent us. He had to be like us. And this is exactly what the scriptures teach in Heb 2:16-18, Heb 4:15. To deny this is to deny Jesus came in the flesh as warned against in 1 Jn 4:1-3. It is error to teach that Jesus was different from us. Yes, he is very God, but he emptied himself of these attributes when he was made flesh.

Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He did not perform miracles until after the Holy Spirit descended on him. This is how he performed his miracles, just as Peter, Paul and the other disciples did. Jesus only did that which his Father told him to do, and was enabled by the Holy Spirit to do, as the apostles did.

It is error to believe that Jesus did not live just as a man can do if he will be obedient to God. But Jesus was the only man who has ever, or ever will be perfectly obedient to God.

When Jesus said with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible, he was saying no man can live perfectly in his own power, but if he lives in complete faith and obedience to God, all things are possible. This is how the prophets and apostles performed miracles.

 

What would you wonder if I loudly proclaimed I never sin?

I try not to sin, but sometimes I still do.

How about you?

 

HP: No one that I am aware of states any can be 'saved' by works. One would not require salvation to enter into eternal life with God if in fact they obeyed His laws and commandments from the first light of moral agency on. The same would have applied to Adam and Eve IF they would have continued in obedience. They would not have needed salvation to simply continue to walk with God until God chose to remove them from this temporal earth.

That possibility of continued obedience could well be the case with both Enoch and Elijah, who did not see death for God simply took them home to be with Him. By no means would I require anyone to accept my theory on those two, neither will I call you a heretic or treat you as being outside the faith because we might disagree.:thumbs:

I personally feel that it is clearly within the framework of logical and Scriptural possibilities, and no other theory as to their flight from this world without seeing physical death has made any sense to my mind anyway.

 

HP: So do I, but a little humor won't hurt either of us and in fact may help us retain our sanity among some we rub shoulders with.

HP: The OT being one and the NT being another. Christ and others made comments that may only apply to those living in one era as opposed to the other. While some may have in fact lived righteous before God from first light of moral agency until God took them, it is certainly not the case for those living in the NT era. God calls all men everywhere in the NT to repentance.

HP: You are certainly entitled to your ideas on that point. As I have stated, the only 'possible' exceptions in my own mind are Enoch and Elijah and Christ of course. God certainly dealt with the homecoming of Enoch and Elijah in manners not in keeping with the physical death of all others, the rapture aside.

 

I believe that someone who is delusional cannot rightly judge what is intellectually honest and what is not. Your following statement is a perfect example of what I am speaking of:

So when the Lord Jesus said the following to the rich man He was telling him that it is impossible to enter into life by keeping the commandments?:

"If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Mt.19:17).

All you do is prove that you are able to delude yourself into believing the most ridiculous things!

 

Jerry, it shows clear deception. There will be a lot of that in the end times. I for one believe we are knocking on that door.

 

Just like I said, "Whenever I hear a Christian loudly proclaim that they sin, I wonder if there is ANY sin that they gave up, not sins they never committed, but sins they actually gave up."

 

Sounds to me like some may have been only trying to obtain fire insurance, not salvation from sin.

 

Nice attempt at evasion. Once again, what would you wonder about me if I loudly proclaimed that I never sin?

Please answer that question.

 

HP: I personally have only met one man in my life that publically claimed he walked so close to God that he did not sin. I never heard one person that knew that man take him to task or suggest he was deceived that knew that godly man personally. He certainly walked with God from every outward appearance. I fully expect to see him close to his Lord in the resurrection.

 

I know this was only a "what if?" situation - you (Winman) don't loudly proclaim that you never sin, but if you did, those very words would be examples of such sins as boasting and lying!

No one can proclaim (loudly or quietly, it makes no difference): "I never sin," without sinning by doing so.

 

If the Law could give eternal life, then Christ died in vain.

Gal. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Gal. 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


When Jesus fulfilled the works of the cross, it was "Out with the Old, and in with the New".

 

Exactly. So this fellow who is new here on BB and doesn't know me is going to find fault no matter what I say.

We already have a regular member here who thinks he never sins, but welcome to BB Moriah, there is always room for one more hypocrite.

 

A public proclamation that he walked so close to God that he did not sin. And that was the clincher --his proclamation. In-credible --that is,not credible. It is downright sinful.

John Wesley said he thought his friend and fellow-laborer John Fletcher fit the bill. But Fletcher knew better. Fletcher was godly,not sinless. The moment anyone would dare to say they were sinless --I would think of that person as rather wretched.

 

Rippon, just curious. What was John Fletcher's testimony? What was his comment(s) concerning Wesley's supposed remark concerning him?

What about God? Was He lying or confused about His remarks concerning his servant Job?

Job: 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


What about Scriptures testimony of Zacharius and Elizabeth?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The point is not if one of these mentioned had never sinned, but there obviously was a period of time they did not sin, not according to myself, but according to God's Word.