1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured There Is No ‘Third Way’

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Jun 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
    I asked you a simple question, and you want to pontificate. "Such were some of you" includes YOU and me. Please turn down your self righteousness. No one has suggested that sin be affirmed in any way.
     
  2. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    45
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, choosing the narrow and straight path is not always easy, but when one does so they choose the Lord.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    post 20 was a good post decon I will respond in about 3 or 4 hours I'm still working right now
     
  4. thisnumbersdisconnected

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fair enough, brother. Thanks, and God bless. Don't work too hard. :thumbsup:
     
  5. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    11,154
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you." This quote came from our Lord in John 15:19 (NLT).

    Great point Rev, there is no third option when it comes to what we believe; how we walk the walk; talk the talk; and most importantly APPLY the Scripture to the things of this world.

    There is at least one person on this board, whom I will not name, that has set themselves up as OUR moral judge, but when it comes to the issue of LGBT, he preaches the third option! Looks to me like that person could use some more study time?

    One of the reasons I hold to the SBC teachings is that I believe in my heart, that once saved, nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God, and that includes our shortsightedness, when it comes to choices in this life as a believer.

    After all, we are plunged into a process, that theologians refer to as sanctification. A process that begins with our justification, and being set aside, belonging to the Father because of the cross of Christ and the work of redemption he did on that cross.

    Once we are established in the act of sanctification, being set aside, we begin a long walk down a narrow path. A path that even Jesus spoke to have its difficulties, but it eventually leads to the narrow gate leading to eternity!

    Along that path, NONE of us have the right to choose a third option just because society, peer pressure or the government legislates it.

    We have the choice of what is right or wrong according to the Word of God, and we may alienate ourselves or be ostracized for our stand, but if it was good enough for Jesus, what makes us any different?

    He said, ""God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers" Matthew 5:11 (NLT). So why are we surprised when this happens? Why do we retreat and reappear with a new will to compromise in order to make people like us?

    In closing, I like a quote from Pastor Kyle Idleman [preacher, author]. If it challenged me, I think it will really hit you where it is intended to, too! Right smack in your heart of hearts! About standing fast in the midst of losing popularity for what you believe, reflecting on the huge loss of followers and disciples after His second day of preaching His own "Jesus Rally, 30 AD, he writes, "From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him" (John 6:66). Many of the fans - who followed Him to the other side of the Sea of Galillee after the feeding of the five thousand - turn and leave (after all Jesus was harsh and spiritual confrontational in asking if they were there for more food)." Kyle challenged, saying, "I was struck by the fact that Jesus doesn’t chase after them. He doesn’t soften his message to make it more appealing. He doesn’t send the disciples chasing after them with a creative handout inviting them to come back for a “build your own sundae” ice cream social. He seems okay with the fact that his popularity has plummeted."

    He lets the crowds leave, leaving Him with a more manageable group which He would eventually mold into the men, He needed to face the "mocking, persecution, lies about them and all the malicious and evil things coming their way!"

    Sure mega church followings are a great accomplishment ... but size may not always mean "bigger is better!" Give me a small congregation anytime, a group that is manageable and pliable, and I'll be happy to lead them beside the still waters, along that narrow path! If having to offer that third option in order to keep up appearance is what I am required to do, I'll take the path that allows me to teach what is right and wrong according to the Bible, and know in my heart of hearts that I have no blood on my hands at the end of the journey!
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    thisnumbersdisconnected

    Hello Dconn...lets see what we have

    I have spoken openly to you about this in times past. I do not hate the word strongholds when it is correctly applied...You do not use it correctly from what I have seen in your posting...which I will explain as we go forward.

    yes...we can praise God that you have more opportunity than most people do.

    Dconn that is why it is even more urgent that you tighten up your theological base to be more scriptural ,thus more effective.
    I am sure there are times that you do. What I object to is when you use the language of the world ...to make excuse for , or cover sin....

    13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy

    No....ALL Christians struggle against sin...as long as we are in this decaying flesh we will live like Paul in Romans 7.


    I cannot tell by what you post which group you are addressing. It is not the same for a Christian as it is for a non Christian. You seem to indicate it is.

    .

    looking at scripture is always good.


    .

    here is where you go completely off the rail Dconn...you ask

    1]
    the passage tells us Dconn....
    He also said be not deceived ; 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:
    neither fornicators,
    nor idolaters,
    nor adulterers,
    nor effeminate,
    nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    Nor thieves,
    nor covetous,
    nor drunkards,
    nor revilers,
    nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Paul says the persons who practice these things ...are the unrighteous....those who practice these things shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God....

    That is a biblical fact.....for you to undermine the passage and rob it of it's meaning is not helpful to everyone.....What do I mean by you undermining it?
    look at what you say-

    It is not everyone Dconn. That is a direct contradiction to the truth of regeneration and conversion. Christians do not .....practice these things...they used to be bound by sin...but are set free by Jesus...

    34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
    35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

    36
    a]If the Son therefore

    b]shall make you free,

    c]ye shall be free

    d]Indeed.
    When God saves someone...they are made ..."free"...indeed.... no addictions and strongholds that you lecture about.....the reigning power of sin is broken.

    Those bound by sin vs 34 are slaves of sin...that is not what a Christian is.
    For you to lump false professors in as Christians is to directly oppose this teaching. If you are dealing with openly sinful people...by all means show how Jesus can set them free and greater is He that is in a Christian , than he that is in the world. Christians do not practice sin.Christians sin, yes....but they are not sins servant.




    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    quantumfaith;
    " Calm down QF....self righteousness is not at issue here

    was it a question or an insinuation?

    yes...did you notice it said....WERE.....not such are some of you.:thumbs:

    When Andy Stanley rebukes the lady for coming to church with another man, after her husband left her for a sodomite, and welcomes the fornicating sodomite into the church instead.....I would say that is affirming sin. If you sit in that kind of church you are affirming it also.

    No one will say they affirm it, but when you welcome it in....you are.
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Icon, thanks for responding. I'm short on time myself this morning, and while I appreciate your advise to "tighten up" my theology, I assure you it is quite tight and biblically sound. It may not agree with yours, but then, you don't have a corner on biblical or theological expertise. I do want to address this one section quickly, and await your response.
    I'll cut it off there, as what you say from this point forward is essentially repetitive of these lines.

    Your contention that only the unrighteous commit these sins is absurd. You may have read some of my testimony before, that I was in prison for forgery related to disordered gambling. I had been a Christian for five years at that time. I committed the crime, I deserved the time.

    You call the addiction "an excuse." I call it a sin based in the flesh, and a sin that has a root cause which cannot be adequately explained by the simple phrase "it's sin." Yes, it is. But it is rooted deeply in human flesh, as are all addictions. Christians, Icon, can suffer addictions. In suffering them, they can be drunkards, adulterers, extortioners (or forgers), idolators, yes, even "effeminate" or "homosexual" to the extent they act in such ways.

    I call it nothing but sin. That's what it is. But by the same token, overcoming sin is not always as simple as calling on the name of Jesus. If that outcry is based in selfishness and a demand for deliverance that is not accompanied by a cooperating effort of the human spirit, it will fail. It is then that those involved in those sins must be counseled in such a way as to be able to clearly see the brokenness that must come from such sin, the humility with which the sinner must approach Christ to seek deliverance from that sin, and the character traits that must be encouraged in the process of recovery.

    I'm sure you don't like any of that. I love you as a brother, I respect greatly your learning, but my friend, you are blind to the truth of addiction and sin if you truly believe that 1) no Christian can actively engage in persistent sin -- "strongholds" of the emotions and the flesh, or 2) that simply laying such sin at the foot of the cross works for all men and women. "Simply" doesn't cut it. There is far more involved than just knowing it is sin and repenting.

    The flesh is weak. Even when the mind and spirit attuned to the Holy Spirit say "no," the flesh will continue to seek what it wants when it wants it. Sin is overpowering, particularly the sin of addictions. People in such sin require help in first seeing Christ, and then making their way to Him to be healed, much like the four men lowering their paralytic friend through Jesus' roof to be healed.

    In the case of the addict, I'm that help. I'm that friend. They need me. I will not sternly tell them "Repent!" even though that will be my message to them. It has to be delivered in a manner they grasp, understand, and embrace.
     
  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have news for YOU. The only difference between you and some "other sinner" is standing. Your sin and heart is just as heavily laden. I responded to your "insinuation" (proclamation). I am calm, though such a response was and is in order.
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    thisnumbersdisconnected

    The scriptural teaching here is the unrighteous,,,{commit} that is habitually practice these sins...so much so that they can be categorized as a thief a, a liar, a fornicator,etc

    I did not say that Christians cannot commit an act of sin. If I want to say that I could...do not attempt to say it for me.
    No Dconn Christians do not Practice sin.....anyone still practicing sin is not a Christian.

    .

    personal anecdotes do not replace scripture.

    No....the language used instead of sin...is an excuse. A drunkard is a drunkard because it is sin. if he becomes dependent on alcohol or drugs physically that is a side issue.

    Sin is very basic...it is rebellion against God's word.

    No...not in scripture. A false professor living in the flesh can go back into the sin like a pig returning to the mud or a dog to it's vomit.

    if you believe otherwise you are in direct opposition to the biblical teaching so that is between you and God.

    9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

    10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    Dconn...I am not critical of you working with troubled persons. the content of some of your ideas is what I am critical of. Even here your response is couched in the language of your profession....."in the process of recovery" rather than looking for true conversion that comes from God.

    :wavey: you would be correct in this,lol


    I believe you are dead wrong on this and in this I can not agree at all here.

    Your ideas void the scriptural language and teaching of sin and temptation, and mortification of sin.[I would recommend reading John Owen on this which is classic theology.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    bless your heart QF....:love2::love2:
     
  12. CarlandBeth

    CarlandBeth New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen

    Judith wrote..."Narrow minded, yes absolutely and I thank you for seeing that as I see it as a virtue. Does it have anything to do with me personally, yes it does. Anytime I am affiliated with someone or something I am in question asto their actions when they do not repent if I continue to stand with them when they do wrong. We are told not to in scripture; "what fellowship does the righteous have with the unrighteous." While I realize that organizations such as the SBC and even individual churches or denominations mean more to many people than the word of God, such is not so with me. For a church to financially support immoral behavior I will not be part of and every SBC member church supports the SBC. Verbal rebuke is not enough in this case. I pray they do the right thing, but if not I will not follow them into the pit or smear the name of Christ by remaining part of them. So yes I would leave a church I am happy with if the SBC does not put that church out and if my church remained in the SBC. A little leaven, leavens the whole lump and I am not tied to the Baptist denomination, a particular church, pastor, group of people or the SBC, but I am tied to the Lord and He says come out from amoung them."

    Amen, Judith.
     
  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is foolishness, Icon, and this ...
    ... while true, nonetheless provides a modern testimony that disproves your previous statement. But there are biblical testimonies as well. I gave you one earlier, in Abram. You did not deal with his reality in any of your comments, but instead chose to return to 1 Corinthians 6 to reiterate again your basis for believing as you do.

    I doubt you even realize it, but by adopting the beliefs you have, you actually fail to acknowledge that our righteousness is not from our behavior. We have no righteousness of our own, and we never will. Our best is "filthy rags." Righteousness is ours only because it is imputed to us as a result of our belief in Christ's sacrifice as atonement for our sins. Paul writes elsewhere that the flesh and the Spirit are at war with one another.
    Galatians 5, NASB
    16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
    17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
    Sin has great power over the flesh. It remains close even though we have been made righteous in Christ. It mingles with our motives and our actions. It is difficult to overcome, and if the effort is not made by the Christian to walk by the Spirit, as Paul admonished, sin will overcome the best of intentions to live righteously, particularly among those who have not been able to root out their addictions. You disparage that terminology, but it is very real, very powerful, and explains why those who truly are in Christ can still be trapped in a prison of their own making.

    The writer of Hebrews makes clear that those to whom he was writing were suffering in exactly this manner.
    Hebrews 12
    1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
    And how do we "lay aside" sin which we have allowed to enter into our thoughts, words and actions? By ...
    2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
    3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
    Using the language you so strongly object to is a method of helping Christians understand how they can still struggle with sin when they've been given new life in Christ. Their persistent sin is not indicative of a "failed conversion" or a false confession. It is indicative of them allowing the flesh to overwhelm the Spirit. They do this by quenching the Spirit, not calling on Him when temptation arises but willingly surrendering to the old habits that have so easily entangled them in the past. They have not learned the power of Christ, that is is just as easily and readily available to them as is the sin they have for so long relied upon for relief from their miserable lives.

    I help unlock the truth for them. You disparage that. You do so out of a lack of understanding of the entire Scripture. You instead insist on a narrow, legalistic understanding that excludes much you don't want to understand.

    That's all right. You apparently don't suffer from the sins of the flesh as do those whom I help. Count yourself blessed. But do not denigrate that which you refuse to understand. God bless.
     
  14. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    45
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please explain the meaning of 1John 3:9
     
  15. thisnumbersdisconnected

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG]

    How many times do we have to return to the same trough? :BangHead:

    Context, context, context!!
    1 John 3, NASB
    4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
    5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
    6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
    7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
    8 the one who practices sin is of the devil ; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
    9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10 By this
    [meaning "by everything I've said up to now] the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
    The next 13 verses discuss the nature of the sin cited in this passage -- failure to love your brother. The only sin referenced is lack of love. If all persistent sin was referenced, then Paul's words to the Roman church would be irrelevant.
    Romans 6
    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
    13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
    Note that the word translated "reign" is basileuo, meaning "to have kingly power." Under your theory and Icon's, that's impossible in the Christian, yet here Paul speaks directly of it, warning Christians in Rome not to allow that to occur. Further, Paul's treatment of the sinful young man in the church at Cornith would be meaningless.
    1 Corinthians 5
    5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
    He had explained those actions beforehand in the verses following the Roman passage.
    Romans 6
    14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
    16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? ​
    The "sin resulting in death" is the sin that persists despite opportunities to repent. The word "master" is the Greek kurieuo, "master, having dominion over." The alcoholic, the gambler, the adulterer, the liar, the gossip -- all are allowing their sin to be the master despite the fact their Master dwells in them. They are made subject to repeated calls to repent. God never ceases to pursue those whom He loves.
    Romans 11
    28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
    29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. ​
    Paul spoke of Israel in this passage, pointing out that Israel had rejected Him at its visitation, but nonetheless remains a vital part of His ultimate plan when sin is finally put away and He reigns on the Earth. If Israel, which refuses the Gospel, can be so loved by God, how could anyone who has made a true profession of faith in Christ for salvation be rejected because he/she continues in the strongholds of the flesh and the spirit?

    They won't. Anyone who believes they will does not really understand the Gospel.
     
    #35 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jun 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2014
  16. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
    Excellent analysis and observation. I am grateful for those as gifted as you to articulate scriptural and observational truth. Thank you "number".
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    thisnumbersdisconnected

    Well Dconn my friend...here we have it....what you call foolishness I see as scripture to be believed...observe how John was not aware of your man centered philosophy......

    3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


    opps Dcon....lots of scripture for you to explain away:laugh::laugh: Dconn..maybe John needed your counsel...how man must allow God to do things??? John like Paul believed the biblical teaching that while Christians can still act out of character and sin, 1jn1:9 they cannot commit sin as a habit, or ongoing habitual practice as you falsely teach.
    No...they teach that biblical Christians...mortify sin...that sins bondage is broken at regeneration.....
    you had said;

    the only thing your anecdote proved that you made a false profession...or you "accepted" a proposition on your terms not Gods. Perhaps after you sojourn into the far country of sinful gambling coveteousness ...perhaps the Spirit convicted you to repent of your ungodliness...that is between you and God Dconn......but it does not"prove" anything else....

    The account of Abraham was a red herring as far as this discussion goes.While it has many lessons for us...it does notover throw the truth and reality of
    1cor 6 at all

    Dconn.....scripture does not over throw scripture...never:thumbsup:

    Wrong again Dconn....The biblical position does not mean that we have a self -righteousness....we now are able to obey from the heart{the new heart } that form of doctrine delivered unto us....
    17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    put down your human psychology books and learn from scripture Dconn...

    19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
    20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
    21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

    22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


    Clearly Paul outlines what the life of TRUE Conversion looks like here DCONN
    This is what I believe and it is not based on personal righteousness, but rather God working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

    Perhaps if you were exposed to good preaching instead of the little sermonettes you like you might have also been instructed in these things.

    Instead we see you speaking directly against the teaching of biblical holiness, and mortification of sin, and denying the Spirit's work in progressive sanctification and mocking any who follow that teaching of biblical holiness.

    4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

    5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

    6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

    7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

    11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

    12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

    13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
    15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

    16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.


    No Dconn...it is impossible to overcome, that is why new birth is necessary....God sets sinners free from addiction...they do not root it out in the flesh......you are describing a self help reformation...not biblical conversion.

    I disparage the false and unbiblical model you espouse Dconn. make no mistake about it ...you are teaching falsely and suggesting that Jesus does not set sinners FREE INDEED is horribly wrong.

    Dconn it is good to try and help people. Most you deal with are unsaved ....however you must know truth before you can offer it to someone else:wavey:

    And strange as it might seem to you Dconn...I think it is you who have no biblical understanding on this...instead you play the role of a false teacher on this matter.
     
    #37 Iconoclast, Jun 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2014
  18. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    45
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So based on your defination of that passage someone could be a practicing homosexual and be saved as long as they love the brethern?
     
  19. thisnumbersdisconnected

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. I'm sure you and a host of others have a problem with that.

    That doesn't mean their sin isn't an abomination to God. It is. So is all sin. But He saves all sinners while they are yet in their sins! There are those here to manage to "overlook" or "forget" that crucial fact. When sin persists in the Christian, it costs him/her heavenly reward, and sin so persistent that it will not be repented may well result in the same fate Paul gave the young Corinthian Christian over to, though he did, after being disfellowshiped, repent and returned to the church (see 2 Corinthians 2).

    Tell me how a "practiciing alcoholic" can be saved and not a "practicing homosexual"? Don't dare to say it isn't the same thing. It is. All sin is sin, and all sin separates us from God. So, go ahead -- 'splain.
     
  20. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    45
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not only me and some others have a problem with that, but the Lord Himself based on scripture.

    As to a practicing alcoholic it is no different. Someone who is practicing something is seeking after the thing they are practicing, not seeking to be free from it or if they are seeking to be free from it, it is for the wrong reason. Anyone who practices sin is lost.
    1Cor. 6:9-10
    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
     
    #40 Judith, Jun 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...