These signs will follow them who believe

DHK,

I'm just wondering something.

Here is the passage of scripture again...

"And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Now, the 1st part of that passage, this part...

"And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Do you believe that part applies to only those Apostles and believers in the 1st century? Or do you believe it applies to all christians until Christ returns?

If you believe it applies to all christians until Christ returns, then why doesnt the rest apply as well?

There is absolutly nothing in the passage to indicate that proclaiming the gospel applies for all time but the signs that follow those who are proclaiming the gospel only apply to the apostles in the 1st century. Nor anywhere else in the scriptures.

Add to that the fact that history gives evidence that none of those things have stopped make your position very very shaky.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

DHK,

I said...

And you said...

So, you believe that when Christ said this...

"they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them;" (notice all the plural references?)

He actually meant...

"ONE will take up ONE serpent, and it will by no means hurt that ONE person"???

And what about the part about...

(more plural references coming)

"and if THEY drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt THEM?"

Where in the book of Acts is the one person whom all of those plural references are referring to?

If Christ wanted to speak of one serprent and one person He would have said that. But He didnt. He spoke plurally and indicated that these things will follow all of those who believe during the entirety of the dispensation of the grace of God found in Jesus Christ.

And they have.

(and I agree with you btw about churches that deliberatly handle snakes. I believe they should not do that. However, their are multitudes of testimonies of people who have been bit and suffered no ill affects.)

Brother, I'll repeat. Get a hold of the book "2000 Years of Charismatic Christianity" The sign gifts have never ceased for 2000 years...including tongues.

Its amazing you would say such a thing. The Holy Spirit is alive and well and has been for 2000 years now. (And before that as well)

Regarding those cults Satan is clever regarding counterfieting the true. But praise God he will eat the dust one day soon. Regarding bad doctrine in the charismatic movement, I agree that there is some of that. Exactly like there is bad doctrine in some groups in evangelicalism, a WHOLE LOT bad doctrine in liberal protestantism and an OVERWHELMING OVERFLOW of bad doctrine, and even idolatry and heresy, as you very clearly know, in the Catholic Church.

In all these areas it is no surprise for God told us there will always be tares mixed in with the wheat.

I agree completly.

God bless,

Mike

 

I can't believe I missed this thread! But I see it now!

spirit1st I hear what your saying.

 

Interesting discussion so far. I have to agree that signs have ceased today because there is no need of them. Signs were for the Jews in relation to the kingdom that was being offered. If we understand the Gospel accounts correctly then signs would make much more sense.

John the Baptist, Christ, the disciples and apostles were offering the heavenly aspect of the ruling kingdom of earth. The physical kingdom had already been promised in the OT, but both physical and spiritual blessings were to flow from the seed of Abraham, so the heavenly aspect of the kingdom was in view.

The signs were in view, because it pointed to a healing that the nation would receive if they would repent. The supernatural provision (feeding of the 5,000 etc.) was a sign as to the supernatural provision the nation would receive if they would repent.

But only the Jews require a sign. Gentiles do not require a sign. The kingdom is no longer being offered to the nation of Israel so the signs are no longered required.

The signs were given to a group of Gentiles only while the offer of the kingdom was still open to the nation of Israel and it was only given to these to provoke Israel to jealousy. It didn't cause the nation to repent. And since the kingdom is no longer being offered to the nation then the signs are no longer needed.

 

Well, J. Jump, uh... do you have any scripture to back that up?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you are right, there should be some scripture to go along with it.

Peace,

Tam

 

There's tons of Scripture Are you looking for something in particular? The Jews are the only ones that require a sign can be found in I Corinthians 1:22.

If you are interested if further study just email me or send me a message and I will get you some information. God's blessings!!!

 

J.Jump
Yeah your right when you say "There are tons of scripture " ,but 1 Cor. 12 is talking about gifts not signs. What say ye?

 

Some of those gifts were signs. Thus we have "sign gifts" which have now ceased. They ceased with the apostles, at the end of the first century.

2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

They were confirmed unto us by "them that heard them" (the apostles) both with signs and...the gifts of the Holy Spirit."
But today there are no Apostles. There are no signs and wonders. The Gifts of the Spirit have ceased.
DHK

 

Tamborine Lady,

You may or may not agree with me.

Miracles are happening all around the world as people tell me of His mighty wonders that He is performing in the lives of true Christians.

The reason we are not seeing that many miracles is because the American churches are so backslidden from where the Lord wants them to be, that He has already written them off just as found in the Laodocean church in Revelation.

Not many people are praying fervently for miracles to take place among sinners and saints, so we do not hear about many of them in these last days of the church within our sinful nation of the U.S.A.

Christians are too materialistic to receive all of the blessings and miracles that He would like to pour out on the people of God.

 

You fail to believe the Scripture I quote for you Ray. You fail to account for it. What does 2Cor.12:12 mean? What does Heb.2:3,4 mean? Or do you take a pair of scissors and cut those verses out of your Bible.

I don't deny that God still does miracles, and no one on this board does. But no one has the gift of miracles. No one can do what Peter did in Acts 5:16 who demonstrated for us the "gift of healing."

No one today has "the gift of miracles" that Paul referred to in 2Cor.12:12. There is no one like that alive today. Can you walk on water like Peter did. That was a miracle. Elijah made the axe-head float. That was a miracle. Joshua made the sun stand still. That was a miracle. Those miracles we don't have today. Have you raised any one from the dead lately. Paul did. But that doesn't happen today does it? The gift of miracles has ceased.

This has nothing to do with the spiritual condition of Christians today. God is working in a different way than when He was in the Apostolic Age. The Apostles are no longer alive.
DHK

 

DHK,

You said, 'This has nothing to do with the spiritual condition of Christians today. God is working in a different way than when He was in the Apostolic Age. The Apostles are no longer alive.'

 

Amen Ray, sounds right on to me, no matter what the nay sayers say!!

Peace,

Tam

 

And you (as usual) conveniently avoided the Scripture that I gave you. I give you Scripture. You give me your rationalizations and experiences.
Sorry Ray. I base my life on the Word of God.
DHK

 

Well I see alot of scripture being ignored! I do read the scripture posted on this board and I still hold membership in a Baptist church. The only difference I see is that I believe God still works the same as He did in the beginning and will continue till........
I don't want no argument its just what I read in the bible.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

 

Not a lot of Scripture. I just posted a couple for him.

Ray has trouble with these verses, and with good reason. It seems that none of the others in the Charismatic camp want anything to do with them either. They are those verses that they cut out of their Bibles.
DHK

 

Sorry DHK, when I said alot of scripture being posted I not only ment this fourm but with this topic in general.

BTW, the scripture is not cut from mine....I believe the whole bible. Also, when you or others throw a scripture verse into the discussion, I read the whole chapter or sometimes the whole book surrounding the verse to get the true meaning.