"This generation"

They are rare. The only ones I know of are those mentioned in his article. By the way you should read John Noe's book which he is trying to refute.

The problem with your view is that many don't even see the Olivet Discourse as a historical event. They believe it has yet to be fulfilled the first time.
However a larger problem exixts in your question. Which prophecies have double or triple etc... fulfillments? Perhaps the virgin birth is just a type of a greater Messiah still to come. Perhaps the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is the real type of our future demise. Maybe Isaiah 13 is in our future. Why chose the Olivet Discourse? On what grounds do you take this prophecy to have double fulfillment but not others? Who decides?

Would it be heresy to claim that a greater Messiah is still in our future and that Jesus was just the first of a yet future second fulfillment? Is it plausible under the "double-fulfillment" senerio?

Here is what some have said reguarding this:

Canon Ryle

'The consequences of admitting such a principle should be well weighed. What book on earth has a double sense, unless it is a book of designed enigmas, And even this has but one real meaning. By what laws of interpretation is it to be judged? By none that belong to human language; for other books than the Bible have not a double sense -attached to them."
I hold that the words of Scripture were intended to have one definite sense, and that our first object should be to discover that sense, and adhere rigidly to it. I believe that, as a general rule, the words of Scripture are intended to have, like all other language, one plain definite meaning, and that to say that words do mean a thing merely because they can be tortured into meaning it, is a most dishonorable and dangerous way of handling Scripture." (Expository Thoughts on St. Luke, vol. i. P. 383.)

James Stuart Russell (1878)
"There is not a scintilla of evidence that the apostles and primitive Christians had any suspicion of a twofold reference in the predictions of Jesus concerning the end." (The Parousia, p. 545)

"An objection may be taken, in limine, to the principles involved in this method of interpreting Scripture. Are we to look for double, triple, and multiple meanings, for prophecies within prophecies, and mysteries wrapt in mysteries, where we might reasonably have expected a plain answer to a plain question ? Call any one be sure of understanding the Scriptures if they are thus enigmatical and obscure? Is this the manner in which the Saviour taught His disciples, leaving them to grope their way through intricate labyrinths, irresistibly suggestive of the Ptolemaic astronomy - 'Cycle and epicycle, orb in orb'? Surely so ambiguous and obscure a revelation can hardly be called a revelation at all, and seems far more befitting a Delphic Oracle, or a Cumaean Sibyl than the teaching of Him whom. the common people heard gladly. "
"What book on earth has a double sense, unless it is a book of designed enigmas ? And even this has but one real meaning. The heathen oracles indeed could say, "Aio te, Pyrrhe, Romanos vincere posse; " but can such an equivoque be admissible into the oracles of the living God ? And if a literal sense, and an occult sense, can at one and the same time, and by the same words, be conveyed, who that is uninspired shall tell us what the occult sense is? By what laws of interpretation is it. to be judged ? By none that belong to human language; for other books than the Bible have not a double sense -attached to them. " (The Parousia, p. 545)

Moses Stuart
"For these and such-like reasons, the scheme of attaching a double sense to the Scriptures is inadmissible. It sets afloat all the fundamental principles of interpretation by which we arrive at established conviction and certainty and casts us on the boundless ocean of imagination and conjecture without rudder or compass." (Stuart on the Hebrews, Excurs. xx.)

So we have a problem, there seems to be a contradiction. So who do you believe, Jesus or John? I'll take the word of Jesus and assume John, like the other disciples, didn't necessarily know much about what was going on at the time. He too was probably assuming a physical coming of Elijah. However Jesus was all knowing and quite clear.

 

Jesus also said that John was Elijah - IF they would accept it. They didn't. In other words, he could have been the fulfillment. He didn't though. Just because he came in the same Spirit as Elijah, doesn't make him Elijah.

Warren, please do a bit more work on "this generation". I have demonstrated too many times how foolish your argument really is. I might get involved in this discussion again. I will wait and see first.

 

I believe Matt. 24:30 & Rev. 1:7 both telling us, every person on earth shall see Jesus Christ come with angels in the sky in their own eyes, must be require to be physical coming in the sky, not spiritualize.

The history does not telling us the record saying, a person on earth already see Jesus appears in the sky wiht the angels.

No way, you can prove 'this generation' of Matthew 24 was literally fulfilled in year 70 A.D., because we do not see Jesus, the person anywhere in this planet earth yet.

Acts 1:9-11 telling us, the two angels told them, why they stare up in the sky? Christ ascend into the heaven, so shall be the same way as he shall come again. They speak of physical, not spiritualize or unvisibly.

Matt. 24:30 & Rev. 1:7 both are not yet fulfill, because the history does not telling us, a person already did see Jesus appears in the sky. THey must be fulfill when Jesus shall come with the angels, the world will see Him, his coming shall not be a secert and quiet. His coming shall be visible wide and very noisy, even, His coming shall be very, very bright, even much more brighter than sun. No humankind history shall experince to seeing this event.

I do not accept preterism doctrine, because of spiritualizes, deny future physical coming of Christ.

Also, we see the graves in the cementary, the graves are not yet open. Obivously, all dead in the graves are still sleep now. Also, everyone of us, are dying daily. There is no solve for to save people's dying. When Christ comes, there shall be no more death again - Rev. 21:4.

Right now, we are seeing people dying daily, know we are still under curse because of sin - Romans 5:12.

Sins are still over everywhere in the world today. There is no peace.

When Christ shall come again, there shall be no more wars, and wicked shall be destroyed.

I do not follow what Dispensationalism teaching. I understand what the Bible teaching us. Obivously, Bible tells us, every person of the earth will see Jesus Christ comes with his angels - visibly and physical (Matt. 24:30; Acts 1:9-11; and Rev. 1:7). Matthew chapter 24 is not yet fulfilled, because Jesus is still up in the heaven sitting on the right hand of God, the Father right now.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Dr. Bob,


Jesus is coming back after tribulation - Matthew 24:29

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Dr. Bob, the preterist interprets the "rod of iron" to mean "many-holed wiffle bat".

Daniel David out (while looking for Christ to invade humanity again).

 

Warren,

Relax.

Aren't you exciting looking forward for Jesus coming again?

Aren't you looking forward for new earth?

Aren't you looking forward wicked like as bars, stripper clubs, homosexuals, porn, murderers shall be full destroyed at Christ's coming?

We as baptists are exciting looking forward for Jesus coming again to earth in physical. Also, we are looking forward for new earth. Also, I am exciting eager looking forward for New Jerusalem shall be desend out of heaven leand on new earth - Revelation chapter 21.

Aren't you exciting looking forward for major events yet to come?

I do! BE EXCITED!!!!!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Yes, we must take the time statements, as you call them, of the New Testament SERIOUSLY as we must take all of Scripture SERIOUSLY, which is something that you have chosen not to do. And instead of ranting and raving about the poor exegesis on the part of Dr. Bob, you need to take a hard look at the many statements in the New Testament regarding the second coming of Christ. All that you have been doing is glossing over them as though they are of no significance. And instead of pretending that the second coming of Christ is something that can be explained away in a juniors department Sunday school class chronology of Matthew 24, you need to consider why there is the apparent contradiction between the gospel accounts of the second coming and realized eschatology.

The viable answer to the critics is not to attempt to down-play into insignificance the most glorious event prophesied in all of Scripture. The viable answer to the critics is to boldly, confidently, and aggressively proclaim the Cross of Christ. It is not the arguments or words of haughty, arrogant fools that brings men and women to our savior; it is the simple preaching of the Cross by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But if you would like to get into a very detailed analysis and exegesis of the Greek text of the 21st chapter in the Gospel According to Luke, bring on! But if you are not up to it, perhaps you should back off!

 

Amen, my brother, preach it!

 

Profile for Warren
Member Status: Junior Member
Member Number: 9386
Registered: August 26, 2004
Posts: 10
Email Address: [email protected]
Location: Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin
My religion / denomination: Christian, Independent
My home church: Faith Evangelical Free
Short personal statement of faith regarding Jesus Christ : The way, the truth, and the life

Warren, are you a Baptist?

 

Ummm...Wareen? Grasshopper?
May I ask you what you would do with this?

1 Thess. 4:16-18
For the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven with a SHOUT, with the VOICE of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: And the dead in Christ shall rise first:
THEN we which are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up TOGETHER with THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Now we know Paul wrote this in about 54 A.D.
The destruction of Jerusalem happened in 70 A.D.
If your position is correct, would you care to EXPLAIN what Paul was talking about?
THIS did not happen, so....
In His service;
Jim

 

The context of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 talking about Christians were sorrowful about their love ones who already died, what will happen to them. Christians wondered, will they miss Christ's coming. Apostle Paul gave them comfort and hope, he told them, they will see their love ones again at Lord's coming. Paul told them, when Christ shall come, the trumpet shall be sound, then, the dead in Chhrist shall be risen, then the remain and alive Christians shall be caught up to meet their love ones in the air, and to see them again, that will be a great reunion day.

Today, many of us are missing our love ones are who died in Christ. Many Christians are dying everyday, gone to be with the Lord in the heaven. We miss them. But, when Christ comes again, we will never miss them each other again forever and ever.

Have the resurrection already past yet? - 2 Tim. 2:18

You see the graves in the cementary, there are more funeral services daily today. Because many people are continue dying daily.

But, there shall be no more death again at Lord's coming Rev. 21:4

I am looking forward for our body shall become into immortablity, have glory and new body be like Christ.

The resurrection is not yet fulfill, because Christ is not yet appear in the sky.

Matt. 24:30; Acts 1:9-11; and Rev. 1:7 tell us, every person will see Christ comes in the sky with their own eyes. There is no record in history telling us, a person already see Jesus Christ come with his angels in the sky. So, the big event is not yet happen. It is still yet to come is future.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DPT;
Thanks. I knew the answer.
My question was to whom it was addressed for the purpose of explaining their position in light of the quoted Scriptures.
But you knew that didn't you?

In His service;
Jim

 

Dr. Bob said:

So now Spurgeon, Gill, Owen, Matthew Henry, Alfred Edersheim and most pre-1900 theologians are now "willingly ignorant". What they understood that you seem to keep missing is that AD70 was a "coming" of Christ.
Spurgeon is a compromising, myth teaching, willingly ignorant theologian. Never heard that before.

No Dr. Bob, those men mentioned above would say that at least most if not all of the Olivet Discourse has been fulfilled. I didn't quote their entire commentaries on Matt 24. You need to read some of their works. Interesting stuff.

By the way since you believe Matt 24 is to be taken literal, what about Is. 13:10?

Matt 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Is 13: 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Are you saying Is. 13 is still future?

Were all the "coming" throught the Bible visible?
Your mis-uderstanding of what Jesus was teaching, and your insistence that everything written concerning prophecy must be literal leads to your error.

Really? So the Kingdom of God failed to arrive? God failed to bring about His Kingdom as promised? So I guess Jesus and John were wrong when they said "the Kingdom of God is at hand."


DPT

I now accept that He did and did when He said He would. Unless you can show me yet another "coming" outside of those dealing with AD70. I am open to that, but have yet to be convinced.

Ecc. 1:4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever .

Eph 3:21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

New Earth? Where is the old one going?

You mean our friends, neighbors, and family members?

Rev. 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city .
15 For without are dogs , and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters , and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Perhaps the church should get busy trying to bring them into the Kingdom instead of waiting for God to zap them. Preaching to myself here.

The angel made it quite clear to John what the New Jerusalem is:

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem , descending out of heaven from God,

You and I are the New Jerusalem.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit .

The New Jerusalem is a spiritual contrast to the old physical Jerusalem and its earthly Temple.

You mean the events of Revelation that the angel told John were at hand?

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand .

For all you literalist, are we to spiritualize verse 10?

 

Eh, the rapture will straighten this out real quick.

 

If you don't want preterist posting then put it in the rules. Don't infer that I'm a liar.

PS you can now please remove me from your private e-mail list. I'm get tired of deleting those everyday anyway.