This just in, Futurists. Nineveh will be destroyed!

And maybe they just come to those conclusions honestly rather than how you suggest. I am not really a true dispy although it is clear to me God deals with Israel and the church differently. But being shown the option of preterism and attacking them are two different things. Your accusation is not love. You could have presented the same truth without the unnecessary and over the top accusation.

 

You did not just attack a system you attacked the people who hold to that system. Whatever your implication was it was about the people and not just the system. You suggested that they will not believe your version because they are holding on to a system. There is a clear implication about the people here. That is an attack.

No offense.

 

This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD. (Psalms 102:18)
--Which generations? Which people that shall praise the Lord?

To hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those that are appointed to death; To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; (Psalms 102:20-21)
--The groaning of the prisoner?? Those that are appointed to death?? Perhaps 70 A.D.
--Declaring the name of the Lord in Zion? When? In the time of Christ? Maybe. During the Millennial Kingdom still to come—more probable.

When the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the LORD. (Psalms 102:22)
--Haven’t seen this yet. It must still be future, as are the events in verse 21.

But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, (Matthew 11:16)

The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Matthew 12:41)
--The men of Nineveh SHALL rise in judgment with this generation.
That hasn’t happened yet. He obviously is speaking of a future event; a future judgment, and not that of the destruction of Jerusalem. It did not involve the men of Nineveh.

The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. (Matthew 12:42)

The queen of the south…the judgment…this generation. It is not speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem, but rather of a future judgment. The queen of the South or Sheba was not present in 70 A.D.

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36)
--This was the condemnation of Jesus against the Pharisees. And this condemnation was fulfilled. I don’t have any problem here.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Matthew 24:34)
“This generation
Gr. "genea," the primary definition of which is, "race, kind, family, stock, breed." (So all lexicons.) That the word is used in this sense because none of "these things," i.e. the world-wide preaching of the kingdom, the great tribulation, the return of the Lord in visible glory, and the regathering of the elect, occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, A.D. 70. The promise is, therefore, that the generation--nation, or family of Israel--will be preserved unto "these things"; a promise wonderfully fulfilled to this day.” (Scofield)

 

REVMAC
Hello. I was originally taught the pre=mill dispensational system...getting tapes and book recommendations from Dallas Theological Seminary, and Baptist Bible college.
I know the system and can still teach it of I had to. Only i do not believe it is the best view.
I am currently in between....Amill, and post mill in my understanding.
Matt.24 was fulfilled in 70ad.....and rev up to chapter 20.....

Historic premill would not disturb me...but seems not necessary...but I am fine with whatever the Lord has in store for His people.
I did not read through this whole thread [My post was made without reference to any responses..}...just taking a coffee break now.
I just liked the OP and was happy to see a fresh "topic" or two...as Tom has started several good threads here.
I will interact with any questions you have ..just be patient and i will get back to you....

Studying out the book of Hebrews over a two year period...moved me away from what i was told was rock solid truth....

 

Thanks DHK for your Preterist endorsement

Thanks DHK you have proved my point once and for all!

I knew I could count on you or the good revmwc or JF to take the bait!

I wanted you to say it first and not me.

You admit you cannot prove Christ didn’t come in 70 AD.

It doesn’t matter the reason—you can cry all you want about universal negatives, logical fallacies, scientific view points, and time machines—it’s all irrelevant. The fact remains that you can’t prove Christ didn’t come back in 70 AD. That means you have to allow for the possibility that he did. You have admitted that the Preterist position could be right. You have validated the possibility that Christ returned in 70 AD.

Now that you have admitted to the possibility that Preterism could be right and your system has failed you for 2,000 years don’t you think it is time to stop beating yourself up with futurism and give Preterism a legitimate look and not just write it off because it disagrees with your old belief.

You have been a pleasure to work with DHK. :applause:

I look forward to our future work together.

 

Good revmwc please see the admission of dhk above

My good sir--please note dhk's admission above that you can't prove Christ didn't return in 70 AD.

Now that we have established that as a legitimate possibility I invite you to exam preterism with unbiased eyes and ask if you want to blindly cling to a system that has offered you nothing but abject failure and disappointment for 2,000 years.

Your old system has never offered anybody down through the ages anything but disappointment, bewilderment, embarrassment, failure, and has no hope of getting better in the future.

Since dhk has established that preterism could be right--don't you want to try it without all the preconceived notions and give it an honest look.

At worse it couldn't be any more wrong that your system is and at best you could find truth and victory in Christ!

 

It is not up to DHK to prove Jesus didn't come in 70 A.D., you are the one claiming he did, so it is your responsibility to prove he did.

This is how it works in a court of law (or is supposed to), the defendant is not required to prove that he is innocent, the prosecution has the burden of proving he is guilty, as they made the claim and brought the charge.

This technique has been used by psychics, mediums, and faith healers throughout history, they claim you cannot prove they are not speaking to the dead, or have power to heal.

You claim Jesus returned in 70 A.D., prove it.

 

Why would this apply only to "Futurists" and not to Preterists as well? Is there some reason that only those who you disagree with are the ones "committed to a system?"

I believe the vast majority of threads you have either started or participated in deal with Preterism. Does this not show that you also are committed to a system?

 

I don't see verses 2-7 as speaking of the destruction of Nineveh, but simply of the Lord. Verses 8-10 do seem to speak directly of the destruction of Nineveh, while verse 11 seems to speak of the future Assyrian spoken of in Isaiah chapters 10 and 11, quoted by Paul in 2 Thessalonians.

But Nineveh was overthown by a literal flood, and the city was burned.

So, I believe verses 8-10 were fulfilled, verse 11 is future.

 

Seems to be a lot of repitition of beliefs on both sides so I'll continue on in that venue:

Admitedly the return of Christ in the lifetime of the Apostles was a very real possibility.

However and for the sake of the debate and assuming it's a valid assumption, preterists then have to deal with the fact that the plain language of the Scriptures are clear concerning the manner in which He will return.

Christ will return bodily in the atmosphere, every eye will see Him (and His pre-ceding sign) with multitudes of global events to be fulfilled (from both OT and NT books) as of yet unfilfilled (unless spiritualized).

Scripture lists will be forthcoming if desired (yes, most are weary of the exercise).

Historically speaking the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers who either spanned the AD70 date or were in close post-time proximity of AD70 will be re-quoted if necessary to show that they looked for a future bodily return of Christ (in the same manner as He left - in His body) as well as a bodily resurrection of those who followed after (we shall be like Him when He appears).

In my research I have found no definitive preterist point of view among the ECF.

Bottom line: the preterist view has perceived problems as well as futurist view.

It's a matter of choice. To me preterism by far has the greater share of perceived difficulties with which one must deal.

My latest unanswered question being - why is planet earth still plagued by sin and death and the created universe still in the bondage of corruption if all is fulfilled and Christ has destroyed the works of the devil?

Why?

How long will this go on and when will it end if all is fulfilled?

Romans 8

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.​

1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

HankD

 

I don't have a system, I know of dispensationalism, but I am not big on it.

I simply told you how these verses impress me. Verse 1 is of course about Nineveh. But verses 2-7 could be speaking of God at any time, there are many such verses as these in scripture.

Verses 8-10 do seem to be speaking of the destruction of Nineveh.

Verse 11 seems future, because it has already been said that Nineveh was destroyed in verses 8 and 9. Plus, I already knew of the predicted "Assyrian".

And history shows that Nineveh was destroyed as these scriptures say.

 

You claim that Christ came in 70 A.D. Then prove it.
If I claim that Nero word a 3 piece suit made by Gucci, then who has the responsibility of proving it?
Your claim is just as foolish, sad to say.

 

I believe the burden fell to you to show when HE came. If 1 Thesalonians 4 has been fulfilled then there would have been thousands of bodies laying in the streets if the body doesn't go withe the believer. If the bodies went then there would have been 1000's who disappeard in Asia Mnor. Or was it that Christ just came for the Jews in Israel and not for the whole church. The promise was that when he came for the church that the dead would rise first then we which were alive and remain would go with them and meet them in the air. Who would have propagated the Gospel? The churches in Asia Minor would have been emptied, then John in revelation said 144, 000 Jews made up of 12,000 from each specific tribe he mentioned would be saved and for 7 years they would testify in Jerusalem, but wait they was no more Jerusalem in those days. So the burden of proof in on you none of that happened. The churches in Asia remained and the Gospel continued to be spread as Matthew 28 was commanded.

Prove He came with Historic evidence thart these churches ceased and when these 144,000 Jews 12, 000 from each tribe testified. Also show where the two witnesses came and were killed laying in the streets of Jerusalem and the whole world saw them as John also said in Revelation. Then too you must show when the Abomination which maketh desolate stood in the Temple for 3 1/2 years as Daniel prophisied and Jesus must occur before His return. I am sure you have Historic and scripture to back all these event up.

I just proved by these there is no evidence all these events occured in Asia Minor as Jerusalem was sacked but His return is to be for ALL believers not just the Jewish ones.

So please prove it occured. Since you clainm it did all this evidence should be available.