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Featured Those who deny the general redemption.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Sep 25, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The people who arent saved, Christ didnt die for them.. Looks like to me you deny the saving death of Christ !
     
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Do you read English or do you just ignore anything you do not like?

    What do these verses say?

    Luk_5:32 died for sinners
    1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all
    Heb_2:9 might taste death for everyone
    1Ti_4:10 Savior of all men, especially of those who believe
    Joh_3:15 whoever believes in Him
    Joh_3:17 the world
    Rom_5:6 Christ died for the ungodly
    2Pe_2:1 false teachers
    Eph_5:25 the Church
    Gal_2:20 gave Himself for me. {Paul / me}

    BF if you can not or rather will not believe these verses then you are just beyond help. To be blunt you are just being stupid, and I say that in the kindest way. Ignorance is not a virtue, although you act like it is. You need some serious help because you are deluded. You have openly denied scripture which brings me to question your salvation.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So if you believe Christ died for folks who eventually die lost in their sins, its apparent you dont believe His death heals, saves them He died for. Now how is that believing Christ ?
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What a waste, I addressed both of these false assertions, and you ignored the truth presented.
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    YOU are the waste with these zany imaginations you actually post.

    WRONG:

    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, ! Pet 1
    24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Pet 2
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another regurgitation of debunked nonsense.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1 Peter 2:24 (NASB)
    and He Himself bore our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed.

    1) He Himself refers to Jesus Christ
    2) our sins refers to humanity's sin burden, thus a ransom for all.
    3) bore refers to Christ carrying the burden of our sins as our sin offering, the Lamb of God.
    4) in His body refers His live body being the sacrifice for humanity's sin burden.
    5) we might die to sin refers to all the ones absolved of their sin burden
    6) live for righteousness refers to those born anew, who are created for good works.
    7) by His wounds you were healed refers to our salvation from the penalty of sin because Christ suffered and died

    Since Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, nowhere in this verse is any suggestion of limited atonement.

    1 Peter 1:2 indicates Peter is addressing believers who are chosen, and existing in scattered areas.
    So once again, no support for individual election before being "not a people."
     
    #47 Van, Sep 29, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
  8. MrW

    MrW Member

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    Silverhair is right.

    Romans 5:10 says we are saved by His life. It does not say by His death.
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Having a few minutes to spare I thought I might deal with just one of the list.
    The Greek word translated 'everyone' is pantos, and might best be translated 'all.' All what? The context decides. All 'those who will inherit salvation' (Hebrews 1:14). All the 'many sons' (2:10) whom our Lord is bringing to glory; all 'those who are being sanctified' (2:11); all His 'brethren' (2:11-12); all the children God has given Me' (2:13).
    John Murray has a helpful note on this.
    'Christ did taste death for every son to be brought to glory, and for all the children whom God had given to Him. But there is not the slightest warrant in this text to extend the reference of the vicarious death of Christ beyond those who are most expressly referred to in this context. This text shows how plausible off-hand quotation may be and yet how baseless is such an appeal in support of a doctrine of universal atonement.' [John Murray: Redemption Accomplished & Applied]
     
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Romans 5:8-10. But God demonstrates His own love towards us, in that , while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from death by Him. For if, when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.'
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Thats a good reference, in the same book.

    How about this Rom 8:33-34

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
     
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  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Thats error.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Martin that is nice that your calvinist commentator does not think Christ's death extends to all but he fails to overcome the clear words in
    Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. Not just a select few as calvinists posit.

    Who are included in the everyone? Would it not include, 'those who will inherit salvation, many sons, brethren, the children God has given Me? I understand that you calvinism does not like the idea that Christ would actually die for those that did not trust in Him but the bible disagrees with you. He did die for all, it is about time that you accept that fact and trust the bible rather than your calvinism.
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I am glad to see that you my finally be getting it Martin. " having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life" This is the point I have been trying to drive home with so many calvinists, and they just refuse to accept it.

    The atonement, His blood, does not save us. It is His life that does. We trust in the risen Christ for salvation.
     
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You continue to make assumption after assumption. The elect are those that are in Christ through faith in Him, not your assumed per chosen ones.
     
  16. MrW

    MrW Member

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    That’s right. Reconciled by His death; saved by His life.

    Only for believers.
     
  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.


    How can we express that idea in more clear or intelligible language? That this refers to the atonement is evident - for it says that he “tasted death” for them.
    The friends of the doctrine of general atonement do not desire any other than Scripture language in which to express their belief. It expresses it exactly - without any need of modification or explanation.
    The advocates of the doctrine of limited atonement cannot thus use Scripture language to express their belief. They cannot incorporate it with their creeds that the Lord Jesus “tasted death for every man.” They are compelled to modify it, to limit it, to explain it, in order to prevent error and misconception. But that system cannot be true which requires people to shape and modify the plain language of the Bible in order to keep people from error! Albert Barnes
     
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  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    How do you continue to deny scripture? Did the Holy Spirit get it wrong? Should He have checked with some of your calvinist scholars first? You can continue to dance around this all you want but the truth is right there in front of you. You just have to accept it.
     
    #58 Silverhair, Sep 29, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  19. Piper

    Piper Active Member

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    What is an error?
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Piper
    Some individuals are more difficult to discuss disagrement than with others.
     
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