Thoughts On the Death of John Paul II

Thank you Monergist, this is interesting to a traditional Catholic who remains faithful to the magisterium of the church and has deep reservations concerning the late pontiff.This does not mean I will not pray for the repose of his soul when he is in judgement before his God.

Going to novus ordo services one could be forgiven to be thinking one had entered a protestant worship not a Roman Catholic Church.

The RCC is in very troubed waters at this point in time.

 

Briony-Gloriana...

Why? There is no point to it. Once a lost person dies, their fate is sealed. Praying is 100% irelavent.

Once a christian dies, they are immedietly in the presence of God...in Spirit form...waiting for the resurrection of their body. Their salvation is a sure thing. Praying is 100% irrelavent.

The idea that people are sort of "lingering in the balance", and that maybe if we pray hard enough, or beg Queen Mary hard enough we can somehow sway Gods mercy is pure mythology.

If by chance the Pope is indeed a christian...and there is good reason to believe he is not, but I hope with all my heart that he is...then he is recieving his rewards now, possibly even as we are posting about this.

God bless,

Mike

[ April 03, 2005, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: D28guy ]

 

I am sorry the man passed. Many loved him and I know my Catholic family down here in South Louisiana and all my neighbors in New Orleans will sorely miss him.
The question that comes to mind when a person dies (for me) is whether or not he fell into the arms of the Lord or into eternity without Him.
I read on another message board where a man said "Not only was he NOT the Vicar of Christ, he also didnt know Christ".

 

I'll save Born again Catholic the work of reposting the following.
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3151.html
(quotes showing that JPII seems to have been reasonably sound when it came to his Christology)

"here is no point to it. Once a lost person dies, their fate is sealed. Praying is 100% irelavent."
"
That's our view, that's not their view and bringing it up at this moment only shows you have no clue.

 

Mioque,

The juxtaposition of opposing views is ironic. Just WHO is Mike hoping to? Surely, Baptists do NOT hope to the saints, our ancestors, Mary? I hope he hopes to the same ... Jesus.

Mike

Most Catholics pray like you hope. The Pope evidenced faith in Jesus Christ. Will he make it into Heaven? Truly only God knows our hearts and will judge us on that.

 

The pope seems to be nothing more than a figurehead to me. Like the King and Queen of England. They just sit in a chair and look holy and inspire a reverential awe in the masses that keep them like a bunch of mind-numbed robots. Dont worry too much about why you believe, just believe.

 

In the end the pope is a sinner like all of us in need of the Gospel like all of us and a man with family and friends like all of us. I pray that he did not suffer at his death, that he was born-again and that he may spend eternity with Christ. I pray that his friends and family and the members of the RCC will find this as incentive to seek Christ with their whole heart, accept Him as their savior and be ready for the 2nd coming so that they too may spend eternity with Christ.

In Christ,

Bob

 

mioque,

You quoted me as saying...

And then said...

I know. And they are wrong. Our view is scriptural, theirs is not.

Have no clue? About what? The Popes salvation?

Did you not read my entire post, or just choose to quote one statement at the exclusion of the others so you could falsely accuse me?

Here is everything I said, with certain parts bolded for emphasis...

I clearly left open the possibility that this man is in fact born again.

I was clear that my point was to bring up their error regarding "praying" a dead person into heaven, and not the Popes eternal destiny.

God bless,

Mike

 

D28
"Have no clue? About what? The Popes salvation?"
"
No clue about what is good taste and no clue about how to evangelize Roman Catholics.
This is the sort of debate that needs to be started up after the funeral. Not while the body is still warm. By this stage any theological disagreement between the RCC and the baptists has become a very dead horse. Beating it once again every time there is an excuse is just counterproducive.

After telling it to Steaver and Bob I better tell you this as well.
Mike, stop ending every one of your posts with "God Bless", that looks like a very meaningless gesture after a while.

 

mioque

I would expect that intelligent evangelicals would always choose their words with care ... well, maybe almost always ...

 

Indeed Mike - if you are not in harmony with the RCC and thereby - Mioque - you had better stop ending your posts with a blessing.

Whew! Lucky thing we addressed that problem right up front!

Bob

Better?

 

Mioque appears to be "clueless" on this one.

The RCC has the same view regarding someone bound for hell - there is no point in praying for them after they die.

So in fact --

"here is no point to it. Once a lost person dies, their fate is sealed. Praying is 100% irelavent."

WOULD be the RC view of the death of a lost person.

But in the RC view FEW are lost - MOST are bound for Purgatory.

In Christ,

Bob

 

mioque,

Regarding evangelizing Catholics, I didnt have that in mind when I posted. I was commenting on a statement in Briona Glorianas post, not sharing the gospel with Catholics.

And regarding a "lack of taste", here is the entirety of the post I was responding to...

Considering what the Catholic Briona Gloriana said about Catholicsim and her Pope, why would there be a problem?

No its not. There are Catholic threads going on here and at other sites with Catholics posting regarding doctrine and debating with evangelicals just as they did before the Pope died.

No it hasnt. Catholics are free to pull out of discussion for a few days if they want. Nobody comes here against their will. Some will pull out, others will continue in discussion and debates with evangelicals.

You are entitled to feel that way. But not everyone is the same as you.

I cant help how it looks to you. If I post it, I mean it, whether the one reading is Evangelical or Catholic. If you are offended I'm sorry, but I wont stop wishing Gods blessings for people because you are offended.

God bless,

Mike

 

Bob
"Better? "
"
Much, that ending probably took more conscious thought on your part than the last 100 in Christs's you posted.

D28
I know of a person who posts under the name "the masked cucumber", he ends all his posts with: "I remain, the masked cucumber".
That is sort of funny, but completely pointless. Thoughtlessly adding God bless after each post is a masked cucumber gesture.

 

mioque,

I do it "thoughtlessly?" I dont mean it?

Your complete incapability at reading minds and judging the motives of someone heart is showing itself in all its glory.

Sadly,

Mike

 

On John Paul;

http://marymediatrix.com/mim/


Her "preservation" from sin is the means by which the Savior effects our "liberation" from sin. That is why He insists with Nicodemus that one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, unless born again of water and the Holy Spirit, that is to say, unless we become children of Mary and of the Church."
But a further clarification is also in order: Pope John Paul II has spoken of Our Lady as Coredemptrix or of her coredemptive role at least six times. I have most recently documented these in my article, “The Mystery of Mary Coredemptrix in the Papal Magisterium” in Mark Miravalle (ed.), Mary Co-redemptrix: Doctrinal Issues Today (Goleta, CA: Queenship Publishing, 2002) and have analyzed the weightiest of these texts, the Pope’s homily in Guayaquil, Ecuador of 31 January 1985, in my article “Pope John Paul II’s Ordinary Magisterium on Marian Coredemption: Consistent Teaching and More Recent Perspectives” in Mary at the Foot of the Cross – II (New Bedford, MA: Academy of the Immaculate, 2002). Although there are some mariologists who want to label all of these usages as “marginal therefore devoid of doctrinal weight”, I beg to differ with them and find their judgment strangely out of harmony with the declaration of Lumen Gentium 25 on the Pope’s ordinary magisterium. "

Monsignor Arthur B. Calkins is a native of Erie, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. and was ordained a priest on 7 May 1970 for the Archdiocese of New Orleans where he served in various parishes as parochial vicar and was involved in other pastoral activities. He has a master\'s degree in theology from the Catholic University of America, a licentiate in sacred theology with specialization in Mariology from the International Marian Research Institute in Dayton and a doctorate which he earned summa cum laude in the same field from the Pontifical Theological Faculty of St. Bonaventure (the Seraphicum) in Rome. His doctoral study, Totus Tuus: John Paul II\'s Program of Marian Consecration and Entrustment (New Bedford, MA: Academy of the Immaculate Studies and Texts, No. 1), has gone into three printings.

If this is what he believed, then...he truly has "gone to his place".

In HIS service;
Jim

 

av1611Jim,

The part you posted is very sad. I've know of this Popes Mary problem for a long time, but this article is still very saddening.

But your link goes to the main page, not that particular article. Could you link to the article or post where to find it?

Thanks, and God bless

Mike

 

I bet a lot of you enjoy the thought of JPII in eternal torment, don't you?

Yeah, that's how Jesus would feel.

 

You can go anywhere in the site from that link, brother. I found those quotes on the e-book tab

In HIS service;
Jim