1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Three Options: An Exercise in Strategy

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Magnetic Poles, Jul 15, 2007.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    With the failed policy in Iraq not changing anything, and the U.S. stuck in a civil war in that nation, here are three options offered as a strategic and metal exercise only. Note that the third one does the heretofore unthinkable . . . using America's nuclear capability, and would be akin to Truman's decision to use the A-Bomb on Japan, with the exception of other nuclear powers being around, and the bombs being many times more powerful than those of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

    Please note: I am not advocating any of these, particularly Option Three, but submit these as a stimulant for discussion only.

    Option One – Declare Victory & Leave

    In this scenario, the United States declares that the goals of the invasion have been met, in that Saddam Hussein is gone and there have been free and democratic elections in Iraq. Declare that there is no further need for U.S. troops and the Iraqis must work out their own destiny now.

    Possible negatives include continued sectarian bloodshed, and the possible takeover of Iraq by Iran or Al Qaeda.

    Option Two – Partition Iraq & Leave

    Partition the country along ethnic borders, leaving a Shia state, a Sunni state and a Kurdish state. Either keep U.S. troops or place U.N. troops to monitor elections in each of the new countries, then withdraw as in Option One.

    As in Option One, possible negatives include the takeover of the Shia state (and possibly the others) by Iraq or even Al Qaeda, giving it an actual state of its own as a base of operations.

    Option Three – Tactical Nuclear Demonstration & Warning

    This is extreme, but evacuate all U.S. personnel, and then give notice that a city in Iraq; Tikrit, Mosul, or even Baghdad; will be destroyed in 7 days by a theater-level tactical nuclear weapon. What will be demonstrated is a small scale of what will happen to the entire region if all hostilities are not brought to an immediate halt. Also comes with a warning that if any US territory, ally, or installation anywhere is the world is the target of a terror attack, the hell that will rain down will make “Shock and Awe” look like sparklers on the Fourth of July.

    Negatives to consider (and these are highly risky) would be the likely immediate cutoff of oil from the region; the ostracization of the U.S.; and the possibility of the threat of a retaliatory nuclear strike against the U.S. if it carries out its plan of a tactical demonstration, by perhaps Russia or another nuclear state. Also, this option could (even likely) trigger a global nuclear war resulting in the deaths of millions, including here in the United States. Another risk is that Al Qaeda would purposely attack the U.S. again in order to provoke America into carrying out its threat to destroy the region.
     
    #1 Magnetic Poles, Jul 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2007
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    42,002
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Also, Japan and Germany had there own atom bomb programs(Japan may have set off a small nuclear device somewhere around Korea just before surrendering) that we were trying to beat to the punch. The only nations in that region that have nuclear capability are Israel, Pakistan, and India. No one else has an active nuclear bomb program at this time.

    The only way to avoid an increase in sectarian violence and a Shiite Iraq aligning with Iran would be to keep our troops there on a permanent basis in secured bases as we have done in South Korea. The question is: are the American people willing to do this?
     
    #2 KenH, Jul 15, 2007
  3. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where's the Admit Defeat & Leave option?
     
    #3 Analgesic, Jul 15, 2007
  4. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh: I never said this was an all inclusive set of options! :thumbs:
     
    #4 Magnetic Poles, Jul 15, 2007
  5. Jaaaman

    Jaaaman New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do we need to admit defeat? We have not been defeated in open battle. The first option given to us here in the OP may very well be feasible, but I don't see the need to admit defeat (we have not been defeated).
     
    #5 Jaaaman, Jul 15, 2007
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't buy the premise. The evidence suggests that the current strategy is working to at least some degree. The accelerated rate of attacks may indeed be coming from fear. Furthermore, teh "civil war" may not be civil at all. Some suggest it is heavily backed by Iran and carried out by non-Iraqis, or by a small minority of Iraqis. Some benchmarks are showing success. In September there is supposed to be a report. Let's see what it says.

    Some of you have your head stuck in the sand and can't see clearly. The fact is that none of us really know what is going on since none of us are there are getting our picture from news sources not known for their objectivity. So I say, let's wait and see before we make these declarations. Objectivity requires us to.
     
    #6 Pastor Larry, Jul 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2007
  7. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Larry, while you disagree with the opening commentary, the options are presented for stimulation of dialog on the pros and cons of each. For the sake of the exercise, assume the current strategery is broken. Personally, I don't see anything changing in the next 6-8 weeks.
     
    #7 Magnetic Poles, Jul 15, 2007
  8. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Good question.

    Any list of options put forth by a liberal would be meaningless without it.
     
    #8 carpro, Jul 15, 2007
  9. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmph, not much of a liberal - he didn't even insult Bush once!
     
    #9 Analgesic, Jul 16, 2007
  10. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Analgesic
    Where's the Admit Defeat & Leave option?


    It was your question. I take that to mean it is you who believes it should be one of the options.

    Wear your defeatism proudly. Don't try to lay it off on MP.
     
    #10 carpro, Jul 16, 2007
  11. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Simply because I think it should be an option under discussion in no way implies that I think it to be correct.
     
    #11 Analgesic, Jul 16, 2007
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Straight answer.

    Do you think it is a viable option?
     
    #12 carpro, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2007
  13. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Define "viable".
     
    #13 Analgesic, Jul 16, 2007
  14. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Afraid to take a stand, I see.:laugh:

    It's tough to be a Christian when one is afraid to take a stand.
     
    #14 carpro, Jul 16, 2007
  15. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0

    Quite similar to the old "It all depends on what "is"is.
     
    #15 2 Timothy2:1-4, Jul 16, 2007
  16. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Either that or I want to know exactly what proposition I'm being asked if I concur with.

    It's tough to be as wise as a serpent when one has to avoid being trampled by all the donkeys.
     
    #16 Analgesic, Jul 16, 2007
  17. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. I've noticed before.

    I was actually gave you a break. Using the word "viable" gave you considerable room to maneuver , but it wasn't enough to suit you.

    You're a waffler.

    Play your word games with someone else.
     
    #17 carpro, Jul 16, 2007
  18. Analgesic

    Analgesic New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    In case you failed to notice, I rejected your offer of "waffle room" and asked for you to be more precise in laying out the proposition for me to respond to.

    I'd be happy to play with someone else, but you asked the question. And now, since you find that I'm actually the sort of person who will hold you to a high verbal standard in the discussion that will follow, you've shirked it.
     
    #18 Analgesic, Jul 16, 2007
  19. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep. I believe someone has been to the Clinton school of speech parsing..
     
    #19 carpro, Jul 16, 2007
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    25,823
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What I noticed is that you don't seem to understand context when determining the meaning of words.

    Of course, it's an act. But it provides a convenient excuse not to take a clear position on any given issue.
     
    #20 carpro, Jul 16, 2007
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...