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Tired, Poor,

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Dec 31, 2021.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I realize that some of you will think this is in the wrong forum, but really what I desire is a general response that churches and believers should have considering the topic of immigration.

    The US is known for what is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    We are a land filled with people who came for a better life.

    Churches and believers have a history of both helping and shunning immigrants depending upon the assemblies background and personal views.

    In this modern age, in your opinion, what should believers and churches offer immigrants - legal or not - in the way of education, health, and food/shelter?

    What examples are found from the Scriptures that might provide some principles to guide the believer and church?

    How forceful should the believers and assemblies be in this matter of immigration and how it relates to the ministry of the gospel?
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    One thing I noticed in many SBC churches is they love to talk about love and what they can contribute to finance what they consider is important. However, few of the members actually engage in personal outreach programs.

    How would you express love in a tangible way?
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe this depends on the person engaged.

    I offered an example a few months ago when I was speaking to a class. If I walk buy and give a homeless man a couple of dollars that could help him, but is it really demonstrating love? What if I had taken the time to talk with the man, to actually show I care about him, that he is of value to me, while meeting a monetary need?

    If I have nothing material to offer I can still offer love. I can share the gospel, but not in the manner of tossing a few dollars to him. I can take interest in his life.

    I use this example because it is a real account I used. The day before I had given what money I had to a man, but I was too much in a hurry to take the time to engage him on a personal level. Looking back, I remember the man but I cannot recall what pressing issue I had. This showed me what was more important. I don't even remember where I was going but I do remember the man I didn't have time for.

    What does that say of me in that moment? I had time to do whatever I was planning but not enough time for Christ.
     
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Interesting.

    I am reminded of the parable concerning those invited to the feast. Too busy folks were dis-invited, and those who would normally not be allowed were compelled.

    Should not the assembly concern itself with those who would normally not sense they were allowed - compelled to come?
     
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  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’m all for voluntary groups, Christians or not, providing housing, food, cars, medical care, private education, and jobs for legal immigrants if they decide to.

    What I don’t support is those same groups, Christian or not, using the power of Federal or State governments to force everyone to pay for those services for legal and illegal immigrants.

    Many of the people who advocate spending other people’s money on these issues are very wealthy, own several homes which could be used to house these folks.

    We are almost $30 Trillion in debt because of the mindset of “just let the government” pay for it.

    peace to you
     
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  7. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I helped support someone who was doing work helping immigrants get settled, find needed aid, learn the language and so on. Evangelism was also going on too. Gradually the program morphed into more and more political advocacy where she started inviting me to "workshops" held in different towns to educate people on how to change the political landscape to encourage more and more of this. I discovered that the parent organization was actually getting federal money for every immigrant they worked with. There was a heavy emphasis in the promotional material on claiming a Biblical perspective on all this - usually using the Old Testament "sojourner" passages as if this is the duty of a good Christian. I had some problems with this.
    The main one being that anyone wanting to move into Israel was expected to join that culture - not come and begin to tell the locals how to live. They did not come with a set of demands. They did not expect everyone else to support them. Because our society is set up the way it is someone who is simply taking aid from someone else gets to vote on whether that should continue. As we have seen that doesn't work. And as stated above, it is not a Christian virtue for you to redistribute other people's money.
     
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  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Our church worked with LEGAL (non-criminal) immigrants to the USA. Back in the 70-80's we helped Hmong and Vietnamese. We worked with some from the USSR (I even traveled to USSR myself). Lately we've been involved with inner-city ministry which includes some Hispanic. But no "immigrant" work with those illegals flooding our nation. My family were all first-gen legal immigrants. My family (and me) received aid from govt AND from church/civic charities. We LOVE helping others.
     
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  9. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Bob, I agree with everything you said above and let's just say I know of some people very close to me who have helped individuals with basic needs whose status could possibly be questionable. But I am saying that there is a deliberate move by some to replace the population of this country with others. Polls have shown that there are 1 billion people who want to come to America. If that happens there will not be an America. No one else does this except for a few Western European countries and it is not working out there either. We have a right to judge who comes, and how many without feeling guilty.
     
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  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Do any churches acquire old motels to house folks while they get a start?

    Lately it seems that churches become more of a referral service to government programs rather than getting truly involved.


    Maybe I’m a bit out of balance in this mater.

    Seems like addicting behaviors among the congregation is another area being left largely to the ungodly to treat.

    Has the church lost its reason to be salt in a community when it has no salt in itself?
     
  11. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the premise that helping others should be a really high priority if you want to know what to do as a Christian but the massive ability of the government to provide aid has made our efforts of almost no account. What was happening with the agency I mentioned was something like this. They would work with the government agencies and be given specific immigrant contacts The agency would help locate housing, get all the aid possible as far as health care, rent subsidies, food aid and education and training opportunities. Each immigrant was totally supported for at least a year. There is massive coordination among the agencies to do this. Also, the parent organization got a direct payment from the government for each immigrant. They also would rely on churches and individuals to provide low cost assistance in this by way of volunteers. And like I said before there were "teaching" workshops to encourage church members to vote in a certain direction. Except for the last sentence, I'm not against doing this - I supported it for years but it is what it is and no individual church can or even should try to take on such a project in my opinion.
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    So a coordination between a church and government (other people’s money). Follow the money. Who’s getting paid (other people’s money) to manage the program and how much?

    I prefer separation of church and state in such cases.

    peace to you
     
  13. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you - in principle. But in actual practice some compromise is in order. In the situation I described above the immigrants were already coming whether we helped or not. This lady who I supported was a good Christian and started Bible studies among the immigrants, got them plugged into local churches and remember, some of these immigrants were already Christians and came here because of real persecution. It's always better to do anything without government interference. I was just pointing out how difficult it is. Besides, I'm paying the taxes too.
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I read a story once of a man in Texas (?) that had a similar ministry as you described. He was helping many people, but someone suggested he get government funding to expand. He thought it was a good idea and applied.

    The government provided funds and new rules and regulations that changed depending who controlled the Whitehorse. Soon, someone “in charge” advised him he could no longer proselytize these people. They couldn’t do Bible studies. His ministry became a bureaucratic swamp that didn’t resemble the ministry he started.

    Compromise will destroy Christian ministry and will always result in secular ideology. If you take the money, they will own you.

    peace to you
     
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  15. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I was in healthcare for 45 years. I know what the government can do. But you do what you can, with wisdom. There are at least 7 kids running around our church that are adopted and at least 3 came out of the state run foster system. You get all kinds of aid from the government and the system is notorious for abuse, partly because of that, but at one of the adoption hearings we had a judge telling a couple of the elders who had come along how much it meant to him to see people willing to help in this area. So it's a mixed bag. With fostering there are a lot of strings attached. They even come out and inspect your home. But at least you can freely take the kids to church still. I don't know the answer. If you have the resources and knowhow to do things alone it is better but sometime you have to compromise or do nothing.
     
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    First of all, the inscription on the Statue of Liberty is not an invitation to emigrate. It's not the Statue of America. It's the Statue of Liberty. It's not saying for the tired and poor and huddled masses to get in boats. It's saying "Give your people liberty."

    With the Gospel, there is no immigrant or nonimmigrant. They're all called to repentance, meaning the illegals need to repent of their trespasses against the citizens of the United States.
     
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  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    So, the inscription doesn’t say, “Give ME your …”.

    Or do you disagree with the statue statement?
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    From a historical perspective, the Statue of Liberty was installed in 1886. The poem by Emma Lazarus (a Jewish activist) was not placed there until 1903.
     
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The statue is Liberty. Not America.
     
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