TITHING

Well then lets put that concept on something else. The consequence for sin is death. Sin. <---period. At the Cross Jesus paid the penalty for sin. Death. Are we now at liberty to sin as we please? The way that I determine if it is fulfilled is through careful study of both the Old and New Testaments. Sacrifice is an obvious one. Not so obvious would be the death penalty. That takes some study to see that.

Acts 15:19. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20. But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Ok, so then murder and theft is permitted to the Gentiles, and so is coveting. They are good to go if they desire to live their whole lives drunk, and feel free as often as they like to beat their wives.

Coll 2:14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I think we already went over that one didn't we?

Gal 5: 3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

There is a REALLY big problem with using this verse to support your cause, because if this verse is taken at face value we condemn just about every man in North America. (but not me )

Romans 7: 6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Oh, I love this chapter. I don't even need to argue. Read v12, and 14.

I am going to have to YELL really loud...WRONG! James wrote these things also:
1:22. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
2: 26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
4: 17. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

As far as clean and unclean meat goes, if you believe Isaiah when he told you about Jesus- you should believe him when he told us about this:

66: 17. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

And this:

66: 22. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Swine. Sabbath. Looks like God still cares.

You have the authority to give it because God gave you the authority to. Read the parable of the stewards. Yes, money is a meduim, but it is ALSO the means by which God promotes the Gospel. Got to feed the Missionaries and Evangelists! Must support the Pastor and pay the utilities! That money has to come from SOMEWHERE.

You think so? Would you like to relate some of the times that God has done WITHOUT the medium of exchange that we have? When has the Gospel been preached and souls saved where it didn't cost SOMEONE money?

2000 Hyundai Sonata here. And yes, sadly, they do. I know people who do. Not in my church but at a RC church, and some Baptists I knew before. They would give their 10% from the 'after tax' amount of their income. Because the tenth from the Gross was just GROSS to them. Sad. GREEDY!

You sound like a Raelean! AHHHHHHHH!!!!

God Bless

 

Isn't that speaking of something that doesn't exist yet? Namely the new heaven and new earth. How is it that you think keeping the sabbath in the NEW earth and THIS earth are related? You still have not proven that the sabbath commandment is binding under the New Testament on THIS earth.

 

I'm sorry, did you say in the New Testament? Let's see:

NOPE. I did what you asked. So now you are changing the terms?

Why not? The author did! You MUST labor to enter into the Sabbath rest. The commandment says to WORK 6 days, and THEN rest on the Seventh. ALSO, this is SO cool, you CANNOT keep the Sabbath Holy, if YOU, yourself are not keeping holy through out the week. If you are a hellian on the other six days and then TRY to come into God's rest on the Sabbath, you CANNOT keep it holy, because YOU are not keeping yourself holy.

It would be nice for you if he had mentioned that huh? Isn't it strange how the author didn't say anything about heaven in that passage, but mentioned not only 'Sabbath' but ALSO the seventh day!!!???? Weird. Wonder why he didn't agree with you.

I tell you what, YOU read it and put off YOUR preconcieved ideas about it, because the READING of this chapter about 3 years ago was what made me QUESTION the Seventh Day Sabbath in the first place (prior to my joining the SDA btw).

WRONG! Disobedience is EXACTLY what keeps you from entering into that rest. God rested on the Seventh day, SO SHOULD WE. God said REST. If you go against what God said, it is disobedience.

NOW, here YOU go, being legalistic. So, disobedience will keep you out of heaven? What about GRACE? You know, you sliced it like that, not me.

What law was given at Pentecost through tongues?

Come to think of it, why are you calling the Mount Sinai incident 'Pentecost'? Is that the origins of that feast? Sheesh, am I ignorant here or what?

God Bless

 

Sola writes:""Do you honestly believe that you can go around sacrificing lambs and get away with it? Isn't that denying the sufficiency of Christ's blood?""

Hey Sola, hope you are well. Actually I through the lamb thing in there as a referance to keeping the old "Law" on sacrificing. I was simply poining out the things that don't matter in terms of salvation. Sorry it sounded as if I approved of animal sacrifices, I don't. Had I been Jewish at the time of Moses, sure then I would have sacrificed a lamb . So just to make sure I am clear the lamb thing just was another representative of something that mattered at one time but no longer does.

In Christ,
Brian

 

You are the one that apparently has taken an unscriptural stand. Have you read through this thread? Can you dogmatically say that those who follow the practice given in Malachi three, concerning tithing are unscriptural. It is an example to follow, not necessaily a law. There are many other reasons to tithe. It is the least we should give. Offerings should be given above that minimum. If you don't agree find a church that does. You have your convictions. Others have theirs. It is a matter of soul liberty.
DHK

 

For the anti tithers out there, this is what it comes down to:

2 Corinthians 9

1. For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2. For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
3. Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
4. Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
5. Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
6. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9. (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11. Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12. For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
13. Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
14. And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
15. Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

If you don't WANT to give God 'YOUR' money, He doesn't want it anyhow!

He only wants what you give out of love for Him and for your fellow man.

SO keep 'your' money, and quit tring to convince those of us who ARE Cheerful givers to think like you.



We are NOT being legalistic by wanting to give back to God MONEY so that the Gospel and ministry to the Saints can be delivered.

God Bless

 

hrhema,

Ok, again, I think we may be agreeing. (did you ever think it possible?)

You are saying that GIVING is different from TITHING. Based on the ACTUAL amount being preached from the pulpit.

The OT law was that of EXACTLY 10%, even of 'mint' as Jesus pointed out about the P&S.

The NT admonition is to give what you feel God wants you to give. Not out of HAVING TO (like in the OT) but out of your own sincere desire to give.

That is what I was talking about.

I thought that by saying you shouldn't tithe you were trying to say that you shouldn't give.

You weren't saying that were you?

God Bless

 

This is scary DHK and I are in agreement. I can't believe that people are so eager to bind fellow Christians and negate Christian Liberty. I will be honest some of the practices of the Lutheran churches are because other denominations and sects insist that things must be done in such and such a manner, for example tithing, worship on Saturday, and baptism solely by immersion.

 

Here is the problem with 10% Tithing, The Early Church had things in common and looked after one another, hence a 10% Tithe is to much for one of the Congregation, and to little for another.

Churches need Tithing to prop up their fellowship that they have decided to base on Capatalist principals rather than the early church model described in the New Testament, Pity.

 

Ben,

So it is your understanding that the NT Church members should give according to how much they can afford?

So after we pay all our bills, and have gotten groceries and gas etc., THEN give?

I am not being sarcastic btw.

I really want to know.

God Bless