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To be or Not To Be, that is the question

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The majority of English translations of James 2:5 add to the inspirited text the words "to be" between "poor to the world" and "rich in faith." I counted 33 translations with the addition, and 7 more inserting the words in italics. On the other hand, I only found about 11 that did not corrupt the text by adding the words "to be" which reverses the meaning of the verse. On the one hand, God chose those who were rich in faith, thus a conditional election for salvation, and on the other hand, God chose those who were not yet rich in faith, thus an unconditional election. So the addition, especially without italics or otherwise indicating the words are additions by the translators, appears to be agenda driven.

    Some of the most highly regarded verses put "to be" in italics, signaling (1) the words are not inspired, and (2) not required by Greek grammar.

    Many of the eleven are older translations like the KJV or YLT, or NMB.

    Since 2 Thessalonians 2:13 also states God chose individuals through (or by reason of) faith in the truth, the addition by most translators is mind boggling.

    One of the ways corruptions were apparently introduced into the inspired text in general was some copiers thought they needed to "harmonize" the text with another verse. So if Ephesians 1:4 means God chose us as foreseen individuals before creation with or without foreseen faith, we would have been chosen before we became rich in faith during our lifetime. And of course the other common corruption driver is to mold the text according to the doctrine of the translator.
     
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Here's what I see when I examine it closely:

    " Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?" ( James 2:5, AV ).
    " Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?" ( James 2:5, NKJV ).
    " Listen, my beloved brothers [and sisters]: did God not choose the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?" ( James 2:5, NASB ).

    " Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?" ( James 2:5, ESV ).

    The first thing I notice between the translations is the word "to be" included in the NKJV and NASB in italics, while the ESV drops all pretense and simply adds the words into the text when the Greek doesn't warrant it:
    https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/jam2.pdf
    biblehub.com/interlinear/james/2-5.htm

    The word, " πλουσίους" ( Strong's G4145 ) transliterated as " plousious / plousios" in English and meaning "rich" or "wealthy", does not carry the words "to be" with it...
    Those words aren't even part of the text.

    Why the other translations do that is a mystery to me, unless they thought, like the KJV translators did, that they could insert italicized words into the text in order to help things along, continuity-wise.
    As for the ESV?
    They have no reason, IMO.

    The words are not part of the Greek and should never have been included as an actual part of the text in English.
     
    #2 Dave G, Jan 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    As for your quote above, we have, in the past, disagreed with this and I find myself once more disagreeing with it.

    Granted, this is not the section for this,
    but I feel compelled to make one short reply and to extend to you my apologies for mentioning this off-topic, because I do see it as being pertinent for this discussion:


    My position is one of completely unmerited favor ( "Unconditional Election" ) being bestowed upon the recipients of God's grace, so that there is no possibility of being able to boast about their salvation in any way, shape or form.
    In other words, He has purposefully designed that His work of grace be something that no man can possibly merit in the slightest degree, so that no one can take credit for any single element of it.

    In this way ( and in the same context as Job 37:24, Psalms 8:2, Matthew 11:25, Matthew 21:16, Luke 10:21, and 1 Corinthians 1:19-31 ), James 2:5 continues and reinforces that God has chosen, independently, who He wishes to have mercy and compassion on ( Romans 9:14-18 )...the poor of this world ( to confound the rich ), and making them rich in faith through their trials of it ( 1 Peter 1:3-9 ).
    It also explains why some believe and why others do not ( John 6:65, John 10:26, Philippians 1:29 ).

    They were chosen, in the completed sense, rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that He has promised to those who love Him...
    Because He first loved them ( Psalms 139, Jeremiah 1:5, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 2:4-6, 1 John 4:19 ).


    Best regards to you, sir.:)
     
    #3 Dave G, Jan 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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