To Seventh Day Adventists

#1. That never happened. Elijah is not recorded as having written anything after "God took him up to heaven".

#2. When you see someone get taken up to heaven in a hurrican or tornado - be assured they are not having "a good day" if they survive at all.

#3. The letter you are talking about was read by the king - but that is the only "action" that can possibly be construed as having happened after Elijah is taken in chapter 2.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Not something I have seen in scripture. In every case scripture reserves the term for church members. (USually living ones - btw)

So... no universalism here.

No. That is Justification and justification is by faith - not by birhdate. You must believe in Christ as your savior to be justified.

So... no universalism here.

Nope.

"IF we confess our sins He IS faithful and just to forgive us our sins AND to cleans us from all unrighteousness" -- 1John 1:9

So... no universalism here.

Nope.

"For it is appointed unto man ONCE to die and then comes judgment" ...

So no redemption from the lake of fire - if you have not chosen salvation is this life - you are "toast" ...

No universalism here "again".

I guess you see a pattern here eh?

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks! It is clears SDAs are not universalists. I wonder, however, if SDAs would subscribe to a more limited form of "Objective Justification" as set forth in these theses?

1. Christ is the Savior of all. This means that the whole world of sinners has been redeemed, forgiven, and reconciled to God in Him.

2. God has accepted the vicarious offering and sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ, in whom therefore God is propitiated and reconciled with all sinners, so that for Christ's sake God's wrath against all sinners has been and remains stilled, and Satan, sin, death, and hell have been and are conquered.

3. Complete and perfect righteousness and forgiveness have been acquired for all sinners.

4. God has declared the whole world to be righteous for Christ's sake and that righteousness has thus been procured for all people. It is objective because this was God's unilateral act prior to and in no way dependent upon man's response to it, and universal because all human beings are embraced by this verdict. God has acquired the forgiveness of sins for all people by declaring that the world for Christ's sake has been forgiven.

 

You need to find a "text" that says "God declares the whole world righteous" for your ideas to work. So far - I find none.

But we DO find that Christ is the "Atoning Sacrirfice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR SINS only but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2.

And "God so loved the WORLD that He Gave ... that whoever BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have eternal life".

However - it is only in THIS life that we are to choose - after that - nothing but "judgment".


In Christ,

Bob

 

As long as I'm here, here's more info:
This is a belief bulletin from the NAMB on the SDA (in pdf format) that also gives Biblical responses to some of the problematic SDA teachings:
http://www.namb.net/evangelism/iev/PDF/BB_7th_day_Adventism.pdf

More articles on SDA from Christian ministries:
http://www.carm.org/sda.htm
http://www.carm.org/sda.htm

Site on Ellen White showing here failed prophecies (in the name of God) and teachings that are contrary to the Bible:
http://www.ellenwhite.org/

Bob Ryan, you seem like a nice guy -- please don't take this personally.

 

They are not my theses but those of A LCMS Committee. The ideas seemed similar to those presented by A SDA Website so I thought I would ask. Thanks again!

[ August 04, 2004, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]

 

There are a lot of rumors about SDA beliefs that are simply not true.

(Marcia's post above is a good example of "not actually posting an SDA reference".)

The official statement of beliefs is published in book form and on the web "27 Fundamental Beliefs" so it is not like I can just come along and make up my own brand of Adventism. What I am saying here is found in that book as well.


No universalism.

In Christ,

Bob

 

And one more note about Marcia's CARM post. I have been there as a member and found that they object strongly to having Bible based presentations on any SDA doctrine where they differ -- to the point of resorting to antics by board monitors that were decidedly unchristian.

But I suppose that works for some people.

This board by contrast has set an outstandingly high bar for Christian standards and principles.

I may not agree with everything that is posted - but the atmosphere is very conducive to Bible study and sharing.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I have been in "several" churches in Indiana - but none were called "the SDA Indiana Church". Must be new.

In Christ,

Bob

 

quote:
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8. Do you accept the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and do you believe that the gift of prophecy in the remnant church is one of the identifying marks of that church? (See pp. 39, 40, 293.)

13. Do you believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy, and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire membership in this local congregation of the world church?


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Odd that you give the quote above -- and then come out with your own little "revisionist" summary as if anyone is supposed to believe that the two are one and the same.

Not very compelling. Try again.

In Christ,

Bob

 

quote:
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EGW: "But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

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If you had gone beyond a snippit-view approach you would realize your blunder here. The term she is using - is in reference to God the Father - clearly Christ is not God the father. She also uses this in reference to the Phil 2 statement that God the Son "Emptied Himself" to become incarnate rather that walking about in blazing glory as the Almighty.

(Simply an "obvious" point but those looking to for cracks in the armor will take a run at anything it would seem.).

Try again. Look for a better target. One that you can support.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The quote in question.


Lift Him Up, page 235
Chapter Title: Lift Him Up as the Crucified One


Christ left His position in the heavenly courts, and came to this earth to live the life of human beings. This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan's charge against God is false--that it is possible for man to obey the laws of God's kingdom. Equal with the Father, honored and adored by the angels, in our behalf Christ humbled Himself, and came to this earth to live a life of lowliness and poverty--to be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Yet the stamp of divinity was upon His humanity. He came as a divine Teacher, to uplift human beings, to increase their physical, mental, and spiritual efficiency.

There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

In every possible way Satan sought to prevent Jesus from developing a perfect childhood, a faultless manhood, a holy ministry, and an unblemished sacrifice. But he was defeated. He could not lead Jesus into sin. He could not discourage Him, or drive Him from the work He had come to this earth to do. From the desert to Calvary the storm of Satan's wrath beat upon Him, but the more merciless it fell, the more firmly did the Son of God cling to the hand of His Father, and press on in the bloodstained path ( The SDA Bible Commentary , Ellen G. White Comments, vol. 5, p. 1129, 1130).

BY for now. Y. b. in C. Keith