Featured To Sin or Not

Whom would be the ones that 'heard' and were saved, and raised up by Jesus?

Those whom the Father had given Him, those whom were granted 'ears to hear"

 

No problem... I'll let you know if you offend me. :smilewinkgrin:

 

OK, but I was not presupposing anything, I sincerely wanted you to address the question - though you didn't speak about the discourse between God and Cain interpreting it in light of calvinism.

I am not being combative, I really wanted to know.

I still have a sense of disatisfaction in that it would appear that God being omni-everything entered into an exercise of futility with Cain.

On the other hand I can't accept the theory of "Open Theology".

Thanks
HankD

 

I'm still not sure what the big deal is with God speaking to Cain. Surely, God can do what He likes. Are you asking about God questioning Cain about the death of his brother Able? Surely God knew and the question was for Cain's benefit, allowing him occasion to repent and own up to his sin (but he didn't). God already knew. HE came to Cain to have the confrontation and told Cain that Abel's blood cried out to Him.

Are you instead asking the question as to how God might speak to Cain, who was then a sinner? He was already a sinner before he killed his brother. He was a sinner when he was born. God spoke to him, to Adam, to many others prior to the flood. Seem to be what He did back then. Not so much now, as He spoke to us once and for all by the Word, by the prophets, and by Christ.

Ever read this in Hebrews?

Hebrews 1:1-3 (KJV)
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


It is interesting that Mormon theology develops the train of thought on this issue with Cain in the way you have been arguing it...

(From the first lecture in theology -- Doctrines and Covenants of the Mormon Church)

Not sure you want to identify with that group... All theology has an antithesis in a false doctrine and many who believe they have arrived at truth have in fact fallen into error, if for no other reason, that they simply have difficulty in placing their utter trust in a sovereign God who will do as HE pleases with us, to us, because of us, and in spite of us.

 

Can you prove that man can not see, hear or has any other inability that would keep him from responding to the gospel from scripture. If not you have nothing to stand on.
MB

 

How so? That is precisely what the Scriptures say.

John 1:10 (KJV)
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


John 1:12-13 (KJV)
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What is your argument against these texts of Scripture?

 

I realized that this question would come up and was in the process of editing my post as you wrote this. I posted just two verses of the many that could be posted, both OT and NT.

Isaiah 6:9-10 (KJV)
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. [10] Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Matthew 13:13-15 (KJV)
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. [14] And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: [15] For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Mark 4:12 (KJV)
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luke 8:10 (KJV)
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Acts 28:26-27 (KJV)
Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: [27] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Hebrews 5:11 (KJV)
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.


Of course, Paul contrasts this dullness of hearing with a different view -- a view that places God's sovereignty FIRST. Once God opens the ears, we DO hear, and salvation comes by hearing! But it is God who elects who hears the effectual call or who does not. That is the point that Jesus made in the several passages listed above.

 

The "Big Deal" IMO has more to do with calvinists than calvinism.

HankD

 

It cannot, for that would set Scripture against Scripture.

 

Did you think that he was not a born again child of God because he was a bootlegger? How did you come to that conclusion? Look what David (a man after God's own heart) did. He committed adultry and then murdered her husband so he would never know about it. Don't be so quick to judge who and who are not children of God.

 

Is the unbeliever actually denied the gift of faith, or does he simply reject it?

John

 

Even a saved person 'cannot not sin".

John

 

I just posted this in another thread dealing with a similar issue:

 

Well forest I did say I didn't know if he was. I never said that he was.
MB

 

"This is what I said:Can you prove that man can not see, hear or has any other inability that would keep him from responding to the gospel from scripture. If not you have nothing to stand on."
And this below is what your proof is.

I don't argue against scripture. These scriptures you have presented as proof do not say that man has an inability. It's just not there so I can only say it looks as though you have nothing to stand on still.
MB

 

Every verse was said to the Jews and the one in acts is Paul quoting Christ. Most Jews were blinded so they could not understand because they rejected Christ.
Blindness;
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rejection
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
It never says this about Gentiles but say clearly that Salvation was sent to the Gentile and that they would hear it.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Oop's sorry I didn't mean to embarass you. If you would just study scripture instead of sitting in church like a bump on a log you actually might learn something...
MB