To those who abhor Calvinism

Count me in as I abhor calvanism because it makes it meaningless to spread the gospel.
I started out by showing that;
A. It is completely unscriptual
B. Perverts what scripture it uses

My last statement was more to come and so here is more;

Quote : Now, as to the Gospel itself.

What is the Gospel? It is good news.

From John 6 "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me


That is certainly not the gospel.
The word gospel does not even appear in the entire book of John.
How about a reference that actually say gospel like Rom 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Key Words "Every one"
That is why calvanism makes spreading the gospel meaningless because they do not even know what the gospel is.

 

Well you listed the gospel in your post as what the gospel is not. You gave reference to a book in the bible that does not even contain the word gospel.
You said the gift in Ephesians 2 is faith which it is not. It is salvation.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You stated that faith was a gift contradicting scripture.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

Well my isn't that convenient. When you start to correct the bible and tell me what it meant rather than what it said is where I step out. I have no doubt as to why you are confused. Good day.

 

Excellent quote. Allow me to point out two things. First, the word translated "word" in "word of God" is not logos. So this does not refer to the written word of God. The Greek word is "rhema". Here's the definition:

4487 rhema {hray'-mah}
1) that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing

So there are several ways to interpret this passage. I happen to believe it means "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes from the utterance of God -- or better, hearing happens when God says so." Others believe it means "hearing comes from the uttered word of God through Christ". Calvinists can see it either way. Arminians will have to side with the latter interpretation in order to support their belief system.

So let me see if I have this right. The preachers in the passage are preaching utterances of God of Christ

 

Your entire foundation is blown away by one little 2 letter God breathed word "if."
You have to twist and distort scripture and intent to try to make the bible fit your belief. I believe what the bible says and base my belief on that.
God said Whosover will. He would have to be a Moron( to quote you)to write that if some could not come.

 

Quote;The question then becomes, "Where do we get this faith?" And the answer is given in Ephesians 2:8. It is the gift of God, not of ourselves.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that [faith] not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

Some people want to say "that" refers back to salvation, but that is grammatically incorrect, because it would be saying...

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that [saved] not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

The grammatically correct way to say that would be...

"For by grace you have received salvation, through faith, and that [salvation]..."

But that's not how the verse reads, because that is not what the author means.

Some people want "that" to refer back to grace. This, if to a lesser degree, is still grammatically incorrect. It would make the verse say...

It's not that hard to figure out. The grammar is elementary

1.Saved through faith
2, not saved of yourself
3.saved is gift of God
4.saved not of works
5.saved not of works so you could boast

 

And one who abhors Calvinism rambles on and on and never speaks to the point I raised. No wonder people are turned off by Christians.

 

Anyone who embraces calvanism can hear the truth that refutes their position until the Lord returns and will still be saying "nobody can answer my question"
No wonder people are turned off by calvanist.

 

Let me give it a shot H.S.
quote from you side; Because God is not able to save people if someone doesn't reach them with the Gospel.

100% wrong,unscriptual,blasphemy.

I call your attention to Romans 1:16-20
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Specifically verse 20. There have been and will continue to be people who live and die never having heard the gospel from anyone. When they stand before their creator they will be just as accountable before God as a person who had the gospel preached to them in a church service.
They will many times be unsaved and without excuse. It is not mandatory that every person hear the gospel.

 

quote from npetr???
How about a reference that actually say gospel like Rom 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
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The key words are actually "every one that believeth". That leaves open the questions, "Who believes?" and "Why does one person believe and not another?"

Interesting how you calvanist take a verse with the name of Christ, God , gospel, salvatiom, Jew Greek... and you say the "Key words are everyone that believeth"
Seems a little slanted.

 

quote from your post;
Now, as to the Gospel itself.

What is the Gospel? It is good news.

From John 6 "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me

quote from your post;
Please prove to us that Calvinists do not know what the Gospel is.

quote from 1 Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Need I say any more?

 

Of course you need to say more. All you have been doing is ranting. Are you suggesting that Calvinists are not saved? You seem to be saying they don't know what the Gospel is.

Now if they are saved then they do know the Gospel. It seems to me you have a dilemna. You have to either say Calvinists know what the gospel is or else that they are unsaved.

Which is it?

 

Read the post carefully. Not just seeing what you want to see.
See where someone said the gospel was;
What is the Gospel? It is good news.

From John 6 "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me

That is not the gospel. This is the bible gospel.
2Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Let's see... your definition of ranting is someone quoting scripture.
I very carefully addressed all of the content of your post with scripture and you call it ranting.

The post you praise and your post have been proven scriptually not sound. If you have something to show otherwise (scriptually) I would love to hear it.

The post earlier said that ws the gospel. Do you dispute that as a calvanist?
If so tell me and the original poster.

 

Guys, remember not to let people get under your skin, especially if they seem to only want contention. Smile, nod, offer them a cool drink.
Gina

 

You still have not addressed my original post. You are evading the question.

 

Psr.2

Let's see if I can lay this out a little simpler.

npetreley wrote:

quote:
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Originally posted by npetreley:

If you want some BAD news, let me offer some: That people will perish in spite of the fact that God wanted to save them. Why? Because God is not able to save people if someone doesn't reach them with the Gospel. Yet this is what Arminianism teaches, not Calvinism. Arminianism not only places the responsibility on man to decide of his own free will whether or not to accept the Gospel, it places the responsibility on man to share the Gospel, otherwise those who might want to be saved may never have the chance, because someone out there chose not to share it at the opportune moment. Can one think of any worse news than that -- that salvation hinges not only upon man's free will to choose salvation, but man's free will to share or not share the "good news"?


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Some very simple questions that this post suggests that can be answered with a yes or no answer.

Does God want to save everyone?

Will People perish in spite of the fact that God wants to save them?

Does Arminianism teach that unless someone reaches a person with the Gospel that person will be lost?

Does personal salvation hinge on a man's free will to accept it or reject it?

Does the sharing of the gospel hinge on man's free will to share or not share the gospel?

Thank you in advance for your answers.