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To those who abhor Calvinism

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by npetreley, Jun 18, 2004.

  1. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    ouch, this will be a very hard pill for arminians to swallow. this is not fair you have given them a question that will not settle well with them
     
  2. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Some very simple questions that this post suggests that can be answered with a yes or no answer.

    Does God want to save everyone?

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


    Will People perish in spite of the fact that God wants to save them?

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


    Does Arminianism teach that unless someone reaches a person with the Gospel that person will be lost?
    I'm not sure if it does but I do know that the bible says regardless if a person has heard the gospel or not they will stand before God without an excuse for rejectting him.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


    10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


    Does personal salvation hinge on a man's free will to accept it or reject it?

    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


    Does the sharing of the gospel hinge on man's free will to share or not share the gospel?

    16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


    Thank you in advance for your answers.
    Your welcome
     
  3. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    Psr.2,

    You simply could not do it - could you?

    Yes or No.

    Just so you'll know in the future let me offer the following verse.

    (Mat 5:37 KJV) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
     
  4. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Sorry the scripture was not adequate for you;
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some very simple questions that this post suggests that can be answered with a yes or no answer.

    Does God want to save everyone?
    YES in spite of what calvanist teach.

    Will People perish in spite of the fact that God wants to save them?
    Yes,many as a result of what calvanist teach.

    Does Arminianism teach that unless someone reaches a person with the Gospel that person will be lost?
    Don't know, but I do know that a calvanist teaches that only a person who was going to be saved could be saved so if you couldn't be saved then don't try, Course a calvanist is the only one who knows who the elect are.

    Does personal salvation hinge on a man's free will to accept it or reject it?
    Yes, contrary to what a calvanist teaches that even if you do not want to be saved if you are elect tough apples you have to be.

    Does the sharing of the gospel hinge on man's free will to share or not share the gospel?
    Yes, however you have displayed on this thread that you definition of the gospel does not match the bible definition so what difference does it make?

    Thank you in advance for your answers.
    Your welcome
     
  5. Dan Todd

    Dan Todd Active Member

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    psr.2 said:
    psr.2 - don't you suppose that if God elects someone to be saved - and gives them the faith to believe (Eph 2:8-9) - that they will want to do anything but trust Christ and be saved?
     
  6. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Interestingly enough, your posted scripture proves Total Depravity, and proves the necessity of a previous spiritual regeneration prior to conversion.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  7. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    interesting take on that Dallas. I'm not sure where it came from but interesting.
    Did you happen to read all of the text? If you did did you notice that the woman was not so depraved that she didn't know who the Master was, she was not sodepraved to know what she needed, she was not so depraved that she id not continue to ask until her request was granted by the Master.
    Interesting indeed
     
  8. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Dan, God does not elect people to be saved.
    God tells them through scripture;
    You are a sinner,
    you are already condemned,
    your eternal destiny is hell,

    I have made a way out,
    it's a free gift,
    it's available to whosoever will,
    (in spite of calvanism)
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Yes, just as I said, it proves Spiritual Regeneration in the simplest way.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    quote;
    Interestingly enough, your posted scripture proves Total Depravity, and proves the necessity of a previous spiritual regeneration prior to conversion.

    Short term memory got a glitch Dallas.
    The above is what you said.
    Now you have modified it.
     
  11. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    What it proves is that anyone is capable of coming to the Lord for forgiveness and anyone is capable of turning it down.
    The maniac, filled with demons was able to run to the Lord for help.
    Calvanistic ideas (certainly not doctrine) has zero biblical foundation and that is why someone makes a statement like "Interestingly enough, your posted scripture proves Total Depravity, and proves the necessity of a previous spiritual regeneration prior to conversion."
    without an ounce of scripture to back it up.
     
  12. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The Bible in Genesis speaks first of men and women being created in the Image of God rather than about the concept of Total Depravity. {Genesis 1:26,27;3:22;5:1} No one should hate Calvinists only the false doctrine they teach. It is also true than a man or woman are capable of committing any sin, because of Original Sin. Calvin never got out of his head the Roman Catholicism that he copied from Augustine.

    The N.T. also speaks of sinners being created in the image of God. [James 3:9]

    It is also true that we have a sin nature as sinners, [I John 1:8 & Romans 3:23] and have all fallen short of the Divine holiness of God.

    Dr. Berrian
     
  13. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    I didn't modify anything, without previous quickening, all are born dead in trespasses and sin; having ears but hearing not, eyes but seeing not; totally unable to 'run' to the Lord for the least temporal blessing btw, where does the Bible say the demon filled man 'ran' to the Lord for help? The Bible makes him out to be running to attack the Lord and those with him.

    Where is your 'ounce of scripture to back' up what you stated about the maniac?

    Also, in regards to Bro. Ray's post, he is correct, Genesis does not mention total depravity because God did not create man in total depravity, but man fell into total depravity, remember Bro. Ray? thou shalt not eat, lest ye die? Did Adam and Eve die in the day which they did eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Not physically, but death entered in and began it's work of killing the body because of the wages of sin. Spiritual death did come upon the first man and woman, it is symbolized by nakedness. Then we see God comes and visits upon them their sins, they did not cry out for him to cover them, instead they attempted to cover themselves with their own hands, and this was rejected by God. Not to mention that in Gen. 3.21 man is cast out of the Garden lest he takes of his own hand and eat of the tree of life and live forever in his now totally depraved condition.

    Yep, I think the lady whose faith made her whole, what instilled that faith? How did the faith make her whole if we are made whole through Christ's atonement? Did she not have this faith before coming to the Lord? If you think not, then explain to me what notion within her drew her to Him.

    May God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    quote;
    Where is your 'ounce of scripture to back' up what you stated about the maniac?

    Here's a full pound of scriptual proof.


    5:1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
    2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
    3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
    4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
    5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
    6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,


    Ran to the Lord and worshipped him.
    Sorry Dallas but you missed that one.
     
  15. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

    Looks like you missed that one dear Brother.

    The discourse is between the demons and Christ, the worship is performed by the demons and not the man, for he was not in his right mind

    Amazing how your zeal to disprove me has eaten you up. ;)

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  16. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Frogman,

    If you are trying to say that after the Fall human beings are no longer created in the Image of God, then you better 'white out' James 3:9 in your Bible. Look up the Greek on the English word, 'similitude' of God. From Genesis until the N.T. are several thousand years until the writing of the Book of James. Yes, we are depraved as sinners but we are not so Totally Depraved that we cannot believe in Jesus Christ as Savior. The Spirit of God calls people to the Cross of salvation and eternal life.

    Your brother in Christ,
    Berrian
     
  17. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    That explains a lot Dallas. If you cannot understand the stucture of that passage you certainly are not equipped to handle the topic of calvanism.
     
  18. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    If calvanism is true then God is an unreasonable liar.

    14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

    21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    According to GOD, they would have but didn't.
    According to calvanist if they didn't they couldn't.

    I'll stick with God.

    28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

    Peter must not have been one of the elect or he would have known who the Lord was.
     
  19. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    According to you, God could have done something to make them repent and be saved, but God let them perish.
     
  20. psr.2

    psr.2 Guest

    Not so fast there quick draw. Did you see the words "long ago"?
     
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