1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

To what is Job referring?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Pastor_Bob, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    228
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Job 3:11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
    12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
    13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
    14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
    15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
    16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light. (KJV)

    According to Strong's, the Hebrew word here translated as "untimely birth" means, "something fallen, i.e. an abortion."

    This word occurs twice more in the Old Testament:
    Psalm 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

    Ecc 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

    I, personally, cannot see Job, David, or Solomon referring to an abortion...at least not a pre-meditated abortion.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    I think this is speaking of a miscarriage, or premature birth, not abortion. My older brother was born two months early and had to spend weeks in an incubator. Many premature babies did not survive at that time, but today medicine is able to save most premature babies.
     
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    228
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would not disagree with your position here. In fact, that is the direction in which I am leaning. Job's word "...hidden untimely birth..." really made me wonder what he was actually talking about.
     
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    It's definitely sounding like a miscarriage or premature birth to me. I'd certainly not read it as a man-induced abortion.
     
  5. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    NASB- "miscarriage"

    NKJV- "stillborn"
     
    #5 Steven2006, Sep 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2010
  6. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Abortion can simply mean the spontaneous expulsion of the fetus in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy (vs. miscarriage which occurs between the 12th and 28th).
     
  7. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suspect that "untimely" can be interpreted by all the instances where the the phrase "concieved and bare" is used. What happens if you only concieve and don't "bare"? An untimely birth.
     
  8. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    228
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Untimely" could also refer to "happening before the usual time." It almost implies an "unexpected" birth. Job seems to reference a premature birth and death in verse eleven:
    Job 3:11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly? (KJV)

    Again, I am not trying to base a doctrine on this passage, nor am I being dogmatic about to what it may or may not be referring. I just found it thought-provoking this morning as I read my Bible.
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    228
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Interestingly, Young's Literal Translation reads as follows:
    Job 3:16 (Or as a hidden abortion I am not, As infants--they have not seen light.)
     
  10. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with the idea of a premature birth. Interestingly, the same concept is spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor. 15. There the word literally means abortive, but the concept is clearly one not born late but early.
     
  11. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,469
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In medical terminology a simple miscarriage is often called a spontaneous abortion.

    But the word "hidden" intrigued me.

    The NLT gives a good literal rendition of the phrase.
    Why wasn’t I buried like a stillborn child,”

    And the NAS…like a miscarriage which is discarded,” conveys the meaning well.

    The word for "hidden" is connected to "bury" (e.g. Gen 35:4; Ex 2:12; Josh 7:21–22; II Kgs 7:8). "He looked this way and that, and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand." Exodus 2:12 (ESV)

    Rob
     
Loading...