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tongue speakers please answer

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, May 16, 2002.

  1. Multimom

    Multimom New Member

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    DKH, you have labled me wrong, you have called Mee deluded, it is not faulty that we have taken every verse we can and spoken it truthfully to you.

    I agree that the "itching ears" may not necessarily be gross sin, but you must agree that to say that "God is love and he loves me just like I am and he made me gay so I don't have to believe what Romans has to say about the practice of my sin." Would certainly fall in to false doctrine.

    JUST A SIDE NOTE: I am not UPC and I do not subscribe to the "oneness" doctrine. I believe in the triune Godhead.

    DKH if you study the "that which is perfect" in I Corinthians whether you use my interpretation of ultimate perfection achieved in heaven or Jesus "being "that which is perfect". Simple English grammer and usage will certainly cause the reader to understand that this is to be a future event. And since at the time Paul wrote this Jesus had already been crucified, buried and resurrected then, even basic English would indicate that this must refer to the "second coming" which also eliminated the cessationst doctrine.

    DKH while you refer to I Corinthians, some how the ooint of "if I have not love" has missed. I have not called you wrong I have simply pointed out the falicy of the misinterpretation of the grammatical usage and general logical thought.

    I cannot convince you that my belief is true. Nor will I obviously be able to change your heart. But believe me when I say I'm not sneaking around "high fiving" those who believe as I do. I don't believe that God is pleased when we argue something that doesn't ultimately lead others to him.

    You never replied to my comments regarding how my faith has increased. You see when I witness to a lost person, I don't witness tongues. I witness Jesus and salvation by grace through faith in him.

    You didn't respond to my contention that "tongues" is not a salvation doctrine. You ignored the comment that the only sin or error that will send me to hell is to refuse to receive Jesus and never accept Him as Savior and Lord. You had no arguement for the fact that my experience with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit has made me all the more stronger in my own faith and desire to know God.

    I do not mock your doctrine. I have never mocked our Lord and Savior. I believe with all my heart after much prayer that this discussion falls into the "all things are acceptable but not all things are profitable" category.

    Tongues is an issue that is best left to the heart of the believer. Arguing this particular point I believe is much what Paul was talking about when He said "I put away childish things." Sort of a "my belief is more correct than your belief. Reminds me of the my dad can beat up your dad conversations I had as about a 5 year old.

    I may continue to read here and possibly lurk in this thread but unless something really strikes my heart regarding this issue I am "shaking the dust from my feet" and moving on.

    "I would that you all spoke in tongues, as much as I" -------- The Apostle Paul
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I hope you don't move on Multimom. I call a spade a spade. In other words, if it is wrong it is wrong. Some of your posts are long and thus I can't answer every point in your post (it would make for quite an epistle). The points I do answer, I try to answer thoroughly. If you still have questions, or unanswered questions, ask again, and I will endeavor to give you an answer.

    Quote:
    "Tongues is an issue that is best left to the heart of the believer. Arguing this particular point I believe is much what Paul was talking about when He said "I put away childish things."
    You imply that the issue of tongues is relatively unimportant; that it should be a private issue. Speaking in tongues today, is a dangerous movement that is being used of Satan to bring together religions of kinds, and will ultimately result in the one world religion described in Revelation 17, that will be ruled by the false prophet in the Tribulation Period to come. If tongues is a gift from God, why do Voo-doo worshipers from Haiti speak in tongues? Why do Mormons speak in tongues? Why do Hindus speak in tongues? Why do tongues transcend almost every cult and modernistic denomination of Christendom? Is it just an issue best left to the heart of the believer? Hardly! It is a movement that is growing at an astronomical growth rate among believers and unbelievers alike. That fact alone should tell one to beware of false prophets, of false teachings, to examine their faith, to take heed to themselves and to the doctrine, to study to show themselves approved unto God, to search the Scriptures. This is a dangerous doctrine. If you are involved in it you need to beware.

    Quote:
    "DKH if you study the "that which is perfect" in I Corinthians whether you use my interpretation of ultimate perfection achieved in heaven or Jesus "being "that which is perfect". Simple English grammer and usage will certainly cause the reader to understand that this is to be a future event. And since at the time Paul wrote this Jesus had already been crucified, buried and resurrected then, even basic English would indicate that this must refer to the "second coming" which also eliminated the cessationst doctrine."
    ---I will endeavor to explain this passage to you once again. BTW you said, "The whole of I Corinthians 13 is of love. Not the ceasing of tongues." Examine the chapter again and put it in its proper perspective. Verses 1-7 speak about love. Verses 8-13 speak of the gifts of the spirit, including tongues and their cessation. Thus out of 13 verses, almost half are devoted to the gifts of the spirit. And of those verses most are speaking of "cessation." Taken within their proper context, this chapter is but one of three, where Paul is addressing the abuse of the gifts of the Spirit to the believers at Corinth. Chapters 12 to 14 all discuss this problem. That's three chapters, or 20% of the First Epistle to the Corinthians that was taken up with this issue of tongues and the gifts of the Spirit. Important enough??

    1Cor.13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    ---Tongues shall cease. Prophecies shall fail. Knowledge (revelatory) shall vanish away. The only thing that will remain forever is love. It will never fail. These other three gifts will cease or end. The question is when? Paul wrote this epistle around 57 or 58 a.d. From that date, Paul said these gifts would cease, not from the date 2002. "Will cease" is future to the time that Paul wrote, not to the time that we live in. To find out when we continue to read:

    9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    ---Please note the context all the way through these last verses is revelation. Tongues (along with their proper interpretation) was a form of revelation. Prophecies were revelation. The "knowledge" spoken of here is revelatory knowledge, a special gift of the spirit given at that time before the Word of God was complete. The context is the gifts of the Spirit in relation to special revelation. Thus Paul says we know in part. We only have a part of the revelation of God. What would that be? The Old Testament. They did not have the New Testament. It was given to them by special revelation-- prophecy, tongues, revelatory knowledge. The most common and profitable of these gifts was the gift of prophecy (as Paul discusses in chapter 14). So he says we prophecy in part. We prophecy in part because we only have part of God's complete revelation.

    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    ---Again the context is revelation: not the coming of Christ, or any other event. "When that which is perfect is come." What does the word "that" refer to? It cannot refer to Christ or His coming, since both Him and His coming would be referred to with a masculine pronoun. "That" is a neuter pronoun. It refers to the Word of God.

    James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
    Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

    When the Book of Revelation was completed, the revelation of God was completed or perfected, and that which was in part (prophecy, tongues, and revelatory knowledge) was done away. It ceased. Those gifts ended. What you have today is Satan's counterfeit. Both the Bible and history attest to the cessation of these gifts. The modern day tongues movement only began at the turn of the twentieth century. For 1800 years were these gifts just dormant, or as history attests, manifested only among heretical groups as they do today? We have the perfect complete Word of God. We don't need anything else.

    To continue:
    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    ---This is a reference to speaking in tongues. Paul is saying that when he was an immature Christian, God gave him an immature gift--the gift of tongues. He spake as a child. Now that he has matured in the faith he no longer needs this gift. He doesn't need to speak like a child. That is how many of the Corinthians were speaking--speaking in tongues and childishly thinking that they were spiritual for having done so. Paul said,
    3:1 "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."
    ---Their speaking in tongues did not make them spiritual at all. In fact in the list of gifts given at the end of chapter 12, Paul lists tongues as the very last gift, the gift of least importance. Funny, how the Charismatics put the most importance on it.
    Put away childish things is a reference to putting away tongues.

    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
    ---Though Paul did not live to see that day, he longed to see the day when he could look "into the perfect law of liberty." James 1:22-25 describes the Word as a mirror that we look into, just as Paul describes it here. He says, now I know in part, but then shall I know, even as also I am known. The Word of God, when fully completed (as it was by the end of the first century) would disclose to Paul everything that he would need to know about God and Christ.

    13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
    ---All the gifts are contrasted. Love is the only gift that will last forever. It is a permanent gift. Faith and hope will endure until the coming of Christ. When Christ comes we will have no more need of faith or hope, for He is our hope. Faith and hope are semi-permanent gifts. Prophecy, tongues, and revelatory knowledge (representative of all the gifts of the Spirit) are temporary gifts. They had only temporary value and ceased in the apostolic age when the canon of Scripture was complete.
    I hope that will answer your question about 1Cor.13 and cessation.
    DHK
     
  3. Walguy

    Walguy Member

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    A couple of points.
    First, when Paul was introducing the subject of Spiritual Gifts in I Corinthians, he made this statement: "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit FOR THE COMMON GOOD." (I Cor. 12:7; emphasis mine) This was a basic parameter for the entire discussion that was to follow.
    Later, he writes: "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself..." (I Cor. 14:4a) Those who believe in the 'private prayer language' brand of tongues interpret this 'edification' as a good thing, but Paul meant precisely the opposite. The use of an alleged manifestation of the Spirit to edify one's self directly violates one of the basic purposes for the existence of those Gifts, according to Paul's earlier statement. True manifestations of the Holy Spirit used correctly ALWAYS benefit someone else, not ourself.
    People who speak in 'private prayer language' tongues are 'edified' by the false belief that their mindless babbling is evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit in their mind and heart. This makes them feel good and 'special,' and thus they are edified. However, according to Paul, true Spiritual Gifts are meant to edify OTHERS, and in the context of Spiritual Gifts self-edification is a BAD thing, and evidence that what's going on is NOT of God.
    The true Gift of Tongues was the ability to speak in a language unknown to the speaker but known to at least one person present, for the purpose of edifying THAT PERSON OR PEOPLE, NOT THE SPEAKER! The only way to justify the 'private prayer language' version of tongues is to separate this one gift from the basic rules which govern the use of all the others. There is no Scriptural basis for doing this.
    Second, I disagree about 'knowledge' and 'prophecy' having passed away already along with tongues. Only the practical working of theses gifts has changed since the completion of the canon of Scripture. They are no longer relevatory, but they are still quite active.
    'Knowledge' is now the gift of understanding what God's Word says. I should know that this gift is still around, since I happen to have it.
    'Prophecy' is now the gift of speaking effectively to communicate the messages of God's Word, using the basic truths of the Bible in a way that reaches the hearts and minds of an audience.
    That there's a difference between these two gifts and 'tongues' in I Corinthians 13 can be clarified by looking at verse 8 a little closer.
    "Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away." (I Cor. 13:8)
    There's a very interesting feature of this verse in the original Greek. The Greek language, in addition to having tenses for its verbs, also has what are called 'voices.' The 'active' voice indicates action by the subject toward something else. The 'passive' voice indicates action on the subject by something else. The 'middle' voice indicates action by the subject toward itself. The word used in reference to 'prophecy' and 'knowledge' in I Cor. 13:8, translated 'pass away,' is in the passive voice, indicating that these things will end due to action upon them. Logically, this can only mean the beginning of God's eternal Kingdom, the 'New Heaven and new earth.' (Rev.21:1) Even with the whole Bible, we are still limited by our fallen human minds. For now, we can only know and understand and speak 'in part.'
    The verb used in reference to 'tongues,' however, is in the middle voice. This meant that the Gift of Tongues would die out of its own accord, without anything external acting on it. This is exactly what happened. When those in the early Church who had this Gift died, the gift died with them. Those who advocate tongues today are trying to revive something that has already ended exactly as the Bible said it would. Not a position I would want to be in no matter how much I was 'edifying' myself.

    "Rationalization is the second strongest human drive." - Mark Belling, Milwaukee talk radio host

    Modern 'tongues' speakers have found something that makes them feel good. In order to keep feeling good, they rationalize away all the clear Scripture that contradicts what they are doing, and twist a few verses into support for it. It's my experience that the intellectual arguments have little effect on 'tongues' speakers, because they are so driven to keep feeling good that their minds are closed to the possibilty that their beliefs about tongues might be wrong.
     
  4. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

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    Hey Brother Walguy, my brother. Good to see you posting. Thank you for what you wrote. I agree 100%. You made a clear argument that everyone should be able to understand. Most modern tongue speakers are very good people and mean well, still there comes a time when we must try and correct that which is in error. Hey, in case I forget we won't be in church Sunday as we are camping. Take care bro and please go to the thread about "Two types of baptism" (I think that is the name) I think you could offer a lot to the conversation. Thanks and take care,
    In our Lord,
    Brian
     
  5. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    Susan, yes I did receive the same Spirit that they received, on the Day of Pentecost. I was praying to GOD when it happened. You all just don't understand anything about speaking in tongues and the operations of the Spirit of God.

    Some say that it has ceased, wrong, some say that it is of the devil, wrong, and others say that some may have it, wrong!

    It all boils down to the fact, you all don't
    understand the Spirit of God and His gifts to us and you don't know what to do about it. Right!!

    MEE
     
  6. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

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    MEE, Please respond to the post by "walguy" and show where he is wrong in what he shared. What walguy wrote was very clear. My social worker mind says that you are getting upset because your heart and mind have been pricked by what has been said. I believe deep down you are starting to see that God's word really does support the assertion that tongues are gone. The Bible clearly says that tongues will pass away on their own, now, really search your heart and mind and with the Bible see they have been gone since 70ish AD.

    MEE, one more biblical proof. Tongues were a sign right?, 1 Cor. 14 says that outright. Signs point to something coming right? (like a roadsign with miles to a city on it) when you get to the city the signs stop right? Read the chapter in Isaiah that Paul refers to and you will see what tongues really pointed to. They pointed to the fall and scattering of Isreal. Once that happened in 70 AD the sign (tongues) which pointed to that died out. See how it all works together. Your job now is to take the pasages in the Bible that walguy used and 1 cor. 14 where the sign is talked about and show me and walguy where we are wrong.

    Keep seeking,
    In love and Truth,
    Brian

    [ June 13, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]
     
  7. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Don where is your integrity..... You know Those girls deserve more than a dollar :D LOL, just kidding. thought I would try to break the tension in here a little.

    God bless
     
  8. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    What is the use in me sitting here looking up scriptures that you or Walguy wouldn't understand anyway?

    I said everything that is needed in my last post to Susan. Go back and read it!!

    Sorry to dissappoint you Brian, but TONGUES are still with us today. To say that they don't exist is to say that God is not pouring out His Spirit.

    As far as your "Social worker mind," and you saying that I'm upset, when did you take up mind reading? They have a name for people like that. :D

    Keep in mind, I'm a very happy person and that's the truth! [​IMG]

    MEE
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Susan, yes I did receive the same Spirit that they received, on the Day of Pentecost. I was praying to GOD when it happened. You all just don't understand anything about speaking in tongues and the operations of the Spirit of God.

    Some say that it has ceased, wrong, some say that it is of the devil, wrong, and others say that some may have it, wrong!

    It all boils down to the fact, you all don't
    understand the Spirit of God and His gifts to us and you don't know what to do about it. Right!!
    MEE
    </font>[/QUOTE]MEE,
    You never answered her question. What language do you speak in when you speak in tongues? Punjabi? Sindhi? Telegu? Cree? What language do you speak in when you speak in tongues? They were known languages. What is your language when you speak in tongues?

    Someone mentioned the deaf and dumb.
    Your answer was totally illogical. The Scriptures say that "How hear we every man in our own languages." Concerning the disciples it says, "They SPOKE with other tongues." The verbs "hear" and "spoke" are definitely used. How can the deaf and dumb hear and speak in other tongues? You are not making sense. What language would the deaf and dumb speak (other than sign) if they spoke in tongues? This is vitally important for those groups who think that tongues are necessary either for salvation or for a second blessing such as the filling of the Holy Spirit. Will all the deaf and dumb need to speak in another language?
    DHK
     
  10. hrhema

    hrhema New Member

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    I find it very strange that there are so many people who argue that the supernatural no longer exists today. (I wonder if you are really Baptist or Church of Christ in disguise)

    As for Mormons speaking in Tongues, whereever that idea came is way off base and not true.

    We have the same God. He has never changed.
    Just because we have the Bible does not stop the fact that God is the same God. This argument that we have the Bible and the Bible has done away with everything else is so childish.
    I think some people are going to be embarrassed when they stand before God and God says I can still heal. I can still open blind eyes. Deaf ears. I can still raise the dead.

    People will say that speaking in tongues is of the Devil yet will turn right around and deny the existence of Demons.

    People totally ignore what God himself dwelling in flesh said. He said these signs will follow believers. He did not say Jewish believers. He did not say the signs will stop after the Bible is put together. He said these signs will follow believers and speaking in tongues is one of the signs. I cannot wait until I see people standing before Jesus and telling him he did not know what he was talking about.

    Paul said he spoke in tongues more than anyone else.

    Tongues are a sign to the unbeliever that God is present. Prophecy reveals the future. Also if you read Paul's writing God revealed things to individuals about things in unbelievers lifes that no one could have known but by the power of God. Why? To show the unbeliever and make him or her a believer. This was the supernatural at work.

    Not all Baptists take a stand against speaking in tongues. Matter of fact there are churches even in the Southern Baptist convention who have members who pray in tongues etc.

    The Anabaptists spoke in tongues.

    The only reason why so many people take a stand against tongues is because there has been so many excesses allowed in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movements. Things that are ridiculous and out of hand.

    Do I believe a person has to speak in tongues to be saved? No. (I was in the Oneness movement for 17 years). It is a gift. I know where Oneness people come up with the idea but it cannot be proven scripturally that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.

    Does everyone who speaks in tongues have the spirit of God? Absolutely not. Do I believe there is a counterfeit tongues. Yes I do.

    Do I believe God uses people in the Gifts. Yes, I do because he has personally used me in times past.

    The gifts of the spirit do not bring new revelations or new truth. What the gifts do is exactly what Paul stated. They reveal things about people lives to bring them to Christ or to help someone who is away from Christ to come back.

    A true genuine believer who may not want this experience will not criticize others or judge them. There are so many people on this earth who think they have a personal job to fight what they call Error in Doctrine or belief and they have absolutely no idea how to do this. They are rude and arrogant. They call people names and tell people they are going to Hell for not agreeing with their beliefs. Not only are Baptists guilty of doing this so are Oneness Pentecostals.
     
  11. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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  12. Revolt

    Revolt New Member

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    DHK will probably arguee that God dosent work in the suppernatural now that the book of revalation has ben written
     
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    You're only partially correct, MEE.

    Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    It also doesn't say that they didn't know what they were saying....

    To say that they simply started uttering a "tongue of angels" without a clue as to what they were saying is to inject a viewpoint into the scripture.

    However, we do know one thing for certain: They were praising and preaching God while speaking in tongues, which each person present heard in their own language.

    v.11 ...we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    It is this verse that indicates to most of us that they intentionally set out to preach the Gospel, and then the flame lit upon them and they started speaking in tongues.
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Quote:
    "Acts 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."
    ---He speaks mysteries because there is no one to interpret for him. It is a known language for someone in the congregation, but not for all. It doesn't edify all. "NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM."
    Thus Paul later on stresses the need for an interpreter. Indeed, he says, if you don't have an interpreter, just sit down and shut up!

    Quote:
    "Someone may have mentioned the deaf and dumb, but it wasn't me. Since you mentioned it, read Numbers 22:28-30) And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29) And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30) And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. Now DHK, if the Lord can cause a beast, such as this to speak, don't you think he could cause a mute person to speak also?"
    ---By this logic why don't we see all the donkeys having the gift of tongues to rebuke men when they go astray?
    ---I would rather think, MEE, that it was a one time event in history, just like Pentecost was. But if you prefer to believe that Pentecost is an ongoing event than logically you should also believe that donkeys speaking to men should also be an ongoing event.
    DHK
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    (18) Unbelievers can do signs (Mt. 7:22; Rev. 13; 2 Th. 2:9; 2 Chr. 18:21; Acts 16:16). Furthermore, so-called speaking in tongues has been practiced in the past (even before the early days of the Church) by unbelievers and false teachers, as well as in our days: Plato, Virgil, before Christian Era; Irving, 19th century; Mormons, Buddhists, Spiritists, besides so-called Charismatics, in past and present days.
    http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/speaking.htm

    Definitions of "speaking in tongues":
    The term "speaking in tongues" has been used to describe two very different phenomena:
    [bullet] Glossolalia: This is the most commonly meaning of "speaking in tongues." This term is derived from two Greek words: gl├Ássai, which means "tongues" or "languages," and lalien which means "to speak." It is observed in some tribal religions and within some Christian denominations, notably Charismatics, Mormons in past times, 1 and Pentecostals. One source event claims that Atheists and Agnostics have spoken in tongues. 2 One source defines it as "a phenomenon of intense religious experience expressing itself in ecstatic speech."
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues1.htm

    History of Speaking in Tongues
    The various gifts of the Holy Spirit disappeared from view after the death of the apostles.
    "Tongues" have reappeared since the Renaissance:
    Late 17th century: in southern France during the attempted extermination of Protestants by the Roman Catholic church. Many of the victims who exhibited the gift were French Calvinists, called Huguenots.
    18th century: among British Quakers and American Methodists.
    19th century: in England among members of the Catholic Apostolic Church, and in the US among members of Mormon churches. Later in the 19th century, it became common within the Holiness churches.
    Early 20th century: it was an important factor -- perhaps the defining characteristic -- at the founding of the Pentecostal movement. In 1900, Charles Parham and a small Bible study group in Kansas began to study Bible passages about the gift of tongues. They began to speak in tongues. In 1906, Parham went to Los Angeles and spoke at the Azusa Street Mission Revival. The movement quickly spread from there. 19
    1960s: Believers who spoke in tongues began to form Charismatic groups with existing denominations, both Protestant and Catholic.
    Toronto Blessing, Vineyard church split. The Pensacola Blessing such things as being slain in the Spirit (fainting and remaining motionless for several hours), laughing in the Spirit (uncontrollable waves of laughter), "getting drunk in the spirit" weeping in the Spirit, barking like a dog, or other para-normal activities.
    ---Note: para-normal activities are occultic and demonic.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues1.htm
    &lt;http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/nature/narule.gif&gt;

    The Mormon prophet, Brigham Young said that the pure Adamic language is "speaking in tongues."
    So, words in the the Adamic Dictionary are really written like this:

    pAy
    lAy
    aLe

    Punctuation: There is none, except in some imported foreign words. In those, a hyphen (-) may appear, but it is not always present. One thing is for sure, if it has a hyphen, it is a word borrowed from a Terrestrial (or Telestial) language.

    Alphabet:
    P, A, L, E, Y In Adamic, this is the order of the letters of the alphabet.
    http://nowscape.com/mormon/Adamic.htm

    Please do your research before making unsubstantiated statements. This is but one statement in your post that I have replied to. Everything you have said, you have neither backed up with Scripture or given any evidence for your opinions. That is just what it is, "opinion." Quite frankly, my opinions aren't worth much, neither are yours. What saith the Lord? That is what is important. What is fact, and what is fiction?
    DHK

    [ June 13, 2002, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]
     
  16. Revolt

    Revolt New Member

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    well you have all convinced me. When the apostle john wrote the words Amen followed by a period in the book of revalation the Almighty God of the universe was struck mute. He can no longer talk to us. Also he dosnt want us to feel anything eaither because that would be weird. I am now going to throw out my niv bible and all my "christian" rock music. I am going to quit my charasmatic church and join the local IFB church.

    GLORY!!!!!!!!
    oh sorry I forgot yelling is using my feelings
     
  17. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Not quite so extreme, Revolt.

    If you speak in a "tongue of angels," then you're wrong. Simple as that.

    I issued a challenge in one of these two threads, and I have yet to see anyone meet it. If you can provide a scriptural reference that mentions the tongue of angels anywhere in the Bible other than 1 Cor 13:1, I would be greatly appreciative.

    If you can't, then you're forced to fall back to 1 Cor 14 (he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks to God)--except that this doesn't validate a tongue of angels, because if you look up every single reference to tongue, tongues, language, languages, angel, and angels in both the Old and New Testaments, you'll find that whenever an angel spoke to someone, there was no problem between the two of them understanding what was said. Every reference indicates that the angel--"messenger"--spoke in the individual's language, and not vice versa.

    So the only reference to the tongue of angels in the entire bible--1 Cor 13:1--just happens to be used in conjunction with "though I give my body to be burned," which y'all haven't proven that Paul did, either.

    Face it, Revolt. You can tell us all you want how we should experience it, and how great it is, and how great it makes you feel; but you can't biblically prove it. And if you can't prove it from the Bible, then you're adding to the Bible.

    And the Bible specifically says don't do that.

    So now you have the choice: Rely on your feelings and/or your experiences, and disregard the Bible. Or, follow the Bible, and realize that the "normal" practice of speaking in tongues as we see it in this day, right now, is not biblical.

    Your choice.

    [ June 14, 2002, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Don ]
     
  18. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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  19. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    That's funny, MEE!

    (it also proves that you haven't been to any of the independent fundamental Baptist churches I've attended!....)
     
  20. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    As my pastor once told a man who asked if he should go to the Pentecostal church down the road because they have more fun: "Sure. And when you're done having fun, and ready to learn about the Bible, come on back!"
     
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