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Tony Perkins Asks Barack Obama: When Does Life Begin?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Revmitchell, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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  2. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    Biblically, with the first breath.
     
  3. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Biblically you are absolutely and completely wrong. :thumbs: And that my friend is the absolute truth.
     
  4. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    If that is the case Crabby, then every time I draw in a breath I become another soul and every time I exhale I loose another personality. Your stance is antiquated and based on the superstition that your soul is in your breath and even if you should sneeze you are loosing your very soul. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Bible is God's Word and God's Word is truth. Get your heart right with the All Mighty and know it is He who formed you in your mother's womb. If that child, that was in that womb you were brought forth from, had been sucked into pieces before you took your first breath you would not be here debating for the side of murderers.

    Psalm 51:5
    5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    Biblically and scientifically you are a living human at conception.

    [​IMG]Gesundheit!
     
    #4 Palatka51, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2008
  5. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

    Genesis 2:7

    “There is a spirit [Hebrew, ruach, breath] in man: and the inspiration [breathing in] of the Almighty gives them understanding. ... The spirit [Hebrew, ruach, breath] of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty has given me life.”

    Job 32:8 and 33:4

    Or in Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones, when the bones come to life:

    ... and the breath came into them, and they lived
    -- Ezekiel 37:10 (KJV)
     
  6. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Crabtownboy has cited scripture to support his position. Can you do likewise?
     
  7. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    This is a stretch Crabby and you know it. You are an educated man and know that each time a breath is taken, by this view, would mean that you would posses a different soul than the one you just exhaled. These verses are speaking of the Spirit of God making man a living soul. This is totally different then the first breath that is breathed in of a new born infant. That breath is the atmosphere and it contains primarily Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen, Argon and other gases and pollutants. Are you suggesting that the atmosphere is God? Common sense will tell you that it is not. IF you are saying that the atmosphere is the Spirit of God then what do you make of all the pollutants? Before you say that is man's doing then can man taint God? I should think not!

    Crabby, you are showing us your heart and what I see is a heart that enables the merchants of murder. You really need to think on that.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    The purpose in breathing is to obtain oxygen. The child receives oxygen long before the first "breath". Adam's scenario is quite different than every other man in this issue. It does not speak to whether life begins at conception.


    Are you suggesting that the "spirit" of man is the air he breathes? Inspiration has nothign to do with oxygen intake. How an absurd.


    Paying attention to context would really help here.
     
  9. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    Note that I said ... or the Bible says, "first breath" not each breath. And of course I am not suggesting that the atmosphere is God ... nor does the Bible. I think the Bible is pretty clear on this issue.

    Just as in RevM's reply, his argument is with the Bible, not with me. When he says what I quoted is silly he is calling the Bible silly. Actually I do not believe he really means that. My guess is he replied out of his emotional reaction and not out of rational thought.

    As I have said before I am against abortion ... but an anti-abortion stance cannot be built from the Bible. It isn't there. I know this is a very hateful thought to many. In fact, I wish the Bible were crystal clear on this, but it isn't.
     
  10. Bob Dudley

    Bob Dudley New Member

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    Scientific answer:
    A new life begins when a new DNA sequence is created. This happens at conception. The moment the baby's first cell is formed it is a new human distinct from mom and dad. At that instant a mother no longer has the "right to choose" because it is no longer her body. It is the body of her child.

    Biblical answer:
    Gen 38:27 - And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. <== distinct individuals in the womb

    Judges 13:5 - for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb <== hard to be a Nazarite if you are still part of your mother's body and not an individual

    Job 1:21 - Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither <== can't come out yourself unless you are alive before the first breath

    Job 3:11 - Why died I not from the womb? <== hard to die in the womb if you are not alive in the womb

    Luke 1:15 - and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb. <== John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while in his mother's womb, again, hard to do if you are not an individual already

    Luke 1:41 - And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb <== John leaped not part of Elizabeth's body.

    Note that all these verses just assume that a person is distinct in their mother's womb. There was no question that they were humans from conception. It is only modern man (that wants an excuse to murder) that it has become a debate.
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Your common tactic to assign emotion to others is weak. But good luck with that. You pulled scripture out of context. Nothing more nothing less.
     
  12. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    And your "pulling scripture out of context" is weak. I suggest you read it in context and you will see, if you open your eyes and mind, that I am correct. These scriptures are certainly not talking about anything other than when life begins as described in the Bible. Cheers.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Since when is the need for context weak? It is clear the context of these passages have nothing to do with the birth of children or when their life begins. Life begins differently for Adam and dead soldiers than a child from the womb. And more interesting do you believe the Genesis account to be literally true?
     
    #13 Revmitchell, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2008
  14. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member

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    Yes or No... Is a "stillborn" baby something that was never alive?
    Yes or No... Is a funeral for a "stillborn" baby a mockery of a sacred rite?
     
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