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Torture Definition Contest Revisited

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Apr 22, 2009.

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  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    You're talking about boots on the ground military here not paid pentagon/military industrial complex propagandists. I understand you wanting to put distance between you and them but using the troops to do it? Shame on you!
     
    #21 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
  2. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Good.

    Then stop your whining.
     
    #22 carpro, Apr 22, 2009
  3. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    :laugh:

    I think the part of drama queen has already been claimed.
     
    #23 carpro, Apr 22, 2009
  4. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    If it weren't for you and OldRegular this place would be dull. I love you guys! :laugh:
     
    #24 matt wade, Apr 22, 2009
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    More like dodge king methinks. :smilewinkgrin:

    Enjoy.

    The effort, which began with the buildup to the Iraq war and continues to this day, has sought to exploit ideological and military allegiances, and also a powerful financial dynamic: Most of the analysts have ties to military contractors vested in the very war policies they are asked to assess on air.

    Those business relationships are hardly ever disclosed to the viewers, and sometimes not even to the networks themselves. But collectively, the men on the plane and several dozen other military analysts represent more than 150 military contractors either as lobbyists, senior executives, board members or consultants. The companies include defense heavyweights, but also scores of smaller companies, all part of a vast assemblage of contractors scrambling for hundreds of billions in military business generated by the administration’s war on terror. It is a furious competition, one in which inside information and easy access to senior officials are highly prized.

    Records and interviews show how the Bush administration has used its control over access and information in an effort to transform the analysts into a kind of media Trojan horse — an instrument intended to shape terrorism coverage from inside the major TV and radio networks.

    Analysts have been wooed in hundreds of private briefings with senior military leaders, including officials with significant influence over contracting and budget matters, records show. They have been taken on tours of Iraq and given access to classified intelligence. They have been briefed by officials from the White House, State Department and Justice Department, including Mr. Cheney, Alberto R. Gonzales and Stephen J. Hadley.

    In turn, members of this group have echoed administration talking points, sometimes even when they suspected the information was false or inflated. Some analysts acknowledge they suppressed doubts because they feared jeopardizing their access.

    A few expressed regret for participating in what they regarded as an effort to dupe the American public with propaganda dressed as independent military analysis.

    SOURCE

    Ah corporatism. Now that's something to be proud of and wave your flag over.
     
    #25 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Here's another one for you , Ponch.

    Warning!!!! Some rough military type language!!!

    http://smalltownveteran.typepad.com/posts/2004/11/fightin_words.html
     
    #26 carpro, Apr 22, 2009
  7. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Uh actually it's not there. Don't get so uptight you let the keypad get the best of ya now. I only brought up the message force multpiliers again to prove a point. The point being that you'd rather discuss them. :thumbs:

    Anyway I'm done messin with ya so you all can go on working on your definitions. Just my way of saying Hello Carpro! been awhile hasn't it?
     
    #27 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  8. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    #28 carpro, Apr 22, 2009
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Actually defining 'torture' is AGAINST Baptist Board Posting Rules.

    Useless and inane 'comments' (such as un-definitions of 'torture') are not welcome in this serious discussion.

    Actual Methods of torture violate several parts including (but not limited to: every form of greed, selfishness, and vice, and all forms of sexual immorality)

    Support of torture is likely to violate this rule. Torture of others is strictly un-scriptural. (Destroying their bodies might be alright in certain circumstances, but not torturing them). I did always wonder about people claiming to be Baptist and/or Christians who so gleefully support torture and humiliation???
     
    #29 Ed Edwards, Apr 22, 2009
  10. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Why do you suppose they haven't been accused of a crime and tried? In many cases we don't have enough evidence to convict them. We don't even have enough evidence to charge bin Laden with anything related to 9/11.
     
    #30 JustChristian, Apr 23, 2009
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Yeah, we know. Bush hired people to fly into the buildings. Thanks for reminding us. :rolleyes:

    umm...we haven't tried Bin Laden because we haven't caught him yet. I know that's kind of deep...don't feel bad asking for help with the difficult stuff...
     
    #31 rbell, Apr 23, 2009
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Brainwashing - using torture to get people to 'sign confessions' -- this works*

    (term pending) - using torture to collect data -- this does NOT WORK (I don't care what some self-serving Admiral &/or General who does Mil-Intell says).

    *Note - said person will blow the torture person/organization away first chance they get. But you can get a signed confession.

    It is said that in the Roman Empire it was REQUIRED that court witness from a slave could only be used if extracted by torture. The Roman Empire fell flat on it's face.
     
    #32 Ed Edwards, Apr 23, 2009
  13. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Ed, please define "torture" for us, so we'll know where you're coming from...
     
    #33 rbell, Apr 23, 2009
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Please read my posts. Thank you.

    See post #29 above.

    Types of Intelligence collecting that are better than torture:

    COMINT or COMTEL, now COINTELPRO- communications intelligence

    Surveillance and Reconnaissance

    HUMINT - Human Intellegence: collecting data by concealment, deception,

    (note that the actual function of a PRIVATE EYE is to collect intelligence that their private clients desire to know, usually from publicly available information data bases)

    Go read the COLLECTION statement here:

    http://www.fas.org/irp/nsa/ioss/threat96/part02.htm

    For those of you just starting in your study of Intelligence Collection (AKA: Information Gathering) read the article cluster starting at this place:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_(information_gathering)

    Torture is the WORSE way to gather information. Besides torture being mean (and this is NOT TRIVIAL), all data collected by torture must be double verified by other methods. Wasting human resources in the dubious torture of people is a bad Intel NO-NO. Not to mention that it raises up a class of DEMOCRACY stealers. It is almost impossible to 'come out clean' after consorting with deamons :-(

    Bible exercise. Go through the Bible and where is says 'devil', 'devils', demon, etc - replace with 'torture person'. 'Torture' is a word picture of evil.
     
    #34 Ed Edwards, Apr 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2009
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Here is much better than a definition as from a Dictionary but is a Thesaurus reading. Dictionary says the 'meanings' of words (but NOT the 'meaning' in your context); Thesaurus shows how the word is related to other English words.

    http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/torture

    this page is sponsored by www.aclu.org and www.yhoutube.com


    BTW, to me the 'torture public problem' is more important to us resident aliens than the 'abortion public problem' or the so called 'pro-life problem' or the so called 'pro-abortion problem'

    And the stand of President Obama is much better on the 'torture public problem' than the stand of Former President Bush.
     
    #35 Ed Edwards, Apr 23, 2009
  16. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    OK, maybe I'm just slow..

    on another thread, I enumerated what I think is torture, and what I think torture is not. Perhaps that would be helpful...
    • Is keeping the lights on at night or messing up the daily routine of the detained torture?
    • Is extended questioning of, say, more than 4 hours torture?
    • Is witholding of creature comforts torture?
    This discussion is way too nebulous for me to know what is being said. What is, and is not, torture?
     
    #36 rbell, Apr 23, 2009
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Maybe I should have put my post in this 'torture' thread rather then where I did over here:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1402350#post1402350

    Two quotes from that page:

    Poncho:
    Ed Edwards:
    Amen, Brother Poncho -- Preach it!
    I felt free to correct my spelling somewhat:
     
    #37 Ed Edwards, Apr 23, 2009
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Matthew 7:12 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible (Holman, 2003):

    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them--this is the Law and the Prophets.[/FONT]

    IMHO 'whatever you want others NOT to do for you' has a subset called 'torture' which is the worse of such things.

    As for your three bullets, I think that all three are torture. Of course, in Nazi Germany the last year of it's existence, starvation was common among the citizens as well as prisoners.
     
    #38 Ed Edwards, Apr 23, 2009
  19. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    OK, so if we don't put dinner mints on their pillows...is that torture?

    Good grief...I understand not physically harming folks. But turning lights on at night is torture?? Come on...
     
    #39 rbell, Apr 23, 2009
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I won't prove it right now, but I believe the Bible teaches it:

    When a person crosses the Torture Threshold (usually at the request of 'authority') he subjects himself to Demon Infestation, Domination, and Control.

    BTW, and this is common knowledge of torturing persons and people who study this form of human mental aberration, the mean time between crossing the Torture Threshold and the torture person being tortured them-self is 26 months. So please don't torture somebody - it is better to die now than wait 26 months. Come on, a society that permits torture, soon allows torture, soon demands torture -- has sold it's soul to the devil.
     
    #40 Ed Edwards, Apr 23, 2009
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