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Transgressing the Law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Sep 3, 2008.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    This is not true Bob, (or shall I say a lie?)

    I have constantly been asking you:

    Do you believe the testimony of Steaver that he was saved at the age of ten.
    --Your answer has been all along: No, only God knows. You have denied it, even attributing his testimony of salvation to demons. Not once have you said yes to this simple question:
    Do you believer the testimony of Steaver that he was saved at the age of ten? Yes or no?

    And now you hypocritically say that you do not deny anyone's testimony.
    Care to explain?
     
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I defy you to show the post I made and used "demon" or "demons". If you cannot produce such a post, you owe me an apology again.

    Once again you call me a liar, questioning my salvation.

    DHK; you have not had any depression lately have you. Have you ever considered harming yourself or others. Have you sought help for your inability to not call others liars and names. Do you seek the Lord's help everyday for calling others, who you are supposed to "love", liars?

    I think I will add your name to our prayer list at church. I indeed do think you need help.

    Do you think you will accomplish your goal you have set out to do. It is quite obvious to all what your intentions are. I honestly think you have let the "moderator" go to your head. I am not alone in this thought. I have seen others tell you almost the same words on different threads. Maybe you should slow down a bit. It may be too much for you.

    BBob,
     
    #242 Brother Bob, Sep 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2008
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Post #186
    The context of "believe not every spirit" is in demonic spirits, the spirit of antichrist. You quoted the verse. What kind of "spirit" do you think is being referred to? It is a demon, not the Holy Spirit.
    This is the last straw Bob,
    Such an insulting post I will not let stand. This one will be reported.

    BTW, I did not question your salvation; I asked for your testimony. I am sorry that you can't tell the difference.
     
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    This post I am quoting or responding to is but the latest example of "finger-pointing".

    For you say I am mocking, by your very words.

    No, Brother Bob, I am not mocking, in any manner.

    The word "moi" is a word in and from the French language, that means "me."

    That word is now more and more coming to be a regularly used English word, as well. It is an idiom, and the word, itself, is a first person, singular reflexive pronoun. I normally would have said "me." However, I used the idiom of "moi," for that idiom also carries with it the sense of irony, which seemed to fit very well.

    Instead of implying that I was 'mocking,' an admission that you did not really understand what I was getting at, and a simple request for an explanation would have worked better, don't you think? I have never been bothered by such requests, and comply with them, if I see them.

    You have in the past suggested that I was "following you around." (I was not, and denied it.)

    You have attributed things to me that I never said, and to which I had to reply, to correct.

    You have suggested in the past two weeks, if my memory is correct as to the date, that I was effectively accusing you of lying, when I asked words to the effect of, if an incorrect attributing of Scripture to Jesus when John actual said the words was an example of a false statement, even though unintentionally made.

    And I believe you have at least implied that I do not believe in repentance, at one time or another, even after I have said this is untrue, because I do not accept the same definition as you, of "repent" as meaning "repent from sins, and/or "turn from sins."

    Shall I continue?

    Remember, it was you, Brother Bob, and not "moi" who opened both this [​IMG] and this [​IMG]

    I can give further examples of "finger-pointing" directed at me, if you'd like, perhaps with one even from this thread, both by direct statement, rewordings, etc., as well as implication. I'll let any others speak for themselves, as I do not need to pick something that involved another, where I was not a part of any such charges, directed at me.

    As an aside, FTR, there are well over 50 instances, on this thread alone, of charges, references to or implication of lies, lying and/or liar and deception, by all parties on the thread, not to mention the implication of at least another 20 of misrepresentations, plus casting aspersions. That figure is not a guess, or approximation, BTW, that is an actual count I made over 24 hours ago, before I stopped counting, at about 55 or 56, although I did see some more, and I still had some 4-5 pages left to be read. Frankly, to all concerned, I find that :tear:

    Back to the main point of the post:

    You were the one that made the statement that "I have never pointed my finger at anyone on BB." (Your words, not those of anyone else.) I will grant you that you have not "physically" pointed a finger at me, for I have not ever been in an audience where you spoke directly with or to me, to my knowledge, and certainly not since I have been on the Baptist Board.

    But I suggest that both you and I know that the physical act is not really what you meant by "I never pointed my finger at anyone on BB," now, is it?

    And I'm pretty sure it is certainly not what most of us on the Baptist Board would think of, mean, or understand by 'finger pointing.'

    So I will ask you once again. Will it really be necessary for me to invest the time to look up and copy and paste additional instances of "finger-pointing," where I am concerned?

    I assure you I can dig them out, else I would not have responded, in the first place, but really prefer that you take my word for it (even though I do not really expect you will), and save me a couple of hours of re-reading posts, to pull up instances.

    Ed
     
    #244 EdSutton, Sep 16, 2008
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  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Moi, MOI, or other variations, can refer to: Memorandum of Instruction
    In language,
    • French for "me" (first person, singular, reflexive pronoun) and used idiomatically and informally by English speakers to ironically indicate mock humility. ("Surely you weren't referring to moi?")
    You must of had a reason to jump in the thread with this, what was it? Please explain the Christian act of this very post and the one before it. Are you just joining in the "stoning" of another member, as they joined in the "stoning" of Stephen, or is there some Christian reason for your moi? If there is a Christian reason, then I will owe you an apology, if it was a "type" of joining in on the "stoning" of a member on this board, then Sir, you owe me an apology. You are the one who will have to lay down tonight and justify your actions before God. I have done nothing, nor am I guilty of the accusations you and DHK have made of me.

    Also, your suggesting of finger pointing is just that, my fingers are on the keyboard, not pointing at you or anyone else. So, yes, if you can show me "finger pointing" I would be interested.

    Oh yes, jumping in and posting in this thread with "moi", undoubtable was for the purpose of the "upbuilding" of God's Kingdom. You must be proud. Just please show me how?

    Don't blame me for opening this can of worms, you Sir, are the one who jumped in here with "moi", not me. Maybe you have a good Christian reason, lets hear it?


    BBob,
     
    #245 Brother Bob, Sep 17, 2008
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  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    You are calling scripture demonic, for you say I have said that Steaver has demonic spirits, and then quote the scripture that I give, as when I accused him of demonic spirits. So, you are calling the word, as an example of demonic spirits. I never said anything, I just quoted scripture.

    If they ban me, it will be for quoting a scripture.


    1Jo 4:1¶Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    I would hope and pray that you and Steaver try the Spirits to see if they are of God. This thread would be a good place to start.


    BBob,
     
    #246 Brother Bob, Sep 17, 2008
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  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    When you call me a liar, you question my salvation. You do it over and over and as moderator, try and use it as stick against me. You do as the Pharasees, you question my salvation and then, say you will turn me in for questioning others, of which I have not. I question no man's salvation. You are putting words in my mouth and you know it. You quoted on this post that calling another member is against the BB rules, and you continue to do it over and over as a moderator.
    Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    I will continue to pray for you, that you can find peace and quit your harrassing of members on this board.

    Anyone who is not following you, can see that you have spent this entire thread, attempting and using every tatic you know, to try to get me to say something, that you can report me to be banned. Maybe you will be successful, but I pray the leaders of this board will read this thread, just to see your tatics, that they will see that you are not qualified to be a moderator of this board and remove you from that position. If you were not a moderator and the things you have posted, you would of been banned a long time ago. You are the most insulting person on Baptist Board, not just to me, all one has to do is read your posts all over the board. Regardless, I will still pray for you, that God will remove your coniving ways that you are using against other members of this board. How you provacate to get others angry. You are more guilty than any member of posting degrading remarks at others, than anyone else.
    BBob,
     
    #247 Brother Bob, Sep 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2008
  8. Andre

    Andre New Member

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    I am not entirely sure what we are discussing here, but I would like to return to the Romans 2 passage that is in the OP:

    Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    In my view, Paul is describing a redeemed Gentile here - he is not talking about Gentiles in general. He is describing a person on whose heart "the law" has been written by the action of the Holy Spirit. And I think that Romans 8, if not other texts, show this really only can happen to someone who has placed faith in Jesus.

    And by "the law" in verse 15, Paul here is not referring to the Torah per se - he is talking about the underlying essence of Torah. But in verse 14, he is indeed referring to the Torah. If people want a defence for this position, I will give it.
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is a false statement. When a person lies it no way affects their salvation. I have repeatedly said that over and over again. So that in itself is a lie Bob, a misrepresentation of what I have said. Mark this and mark it well. Every time that you misrepresent what I say it is a lie, and you have done it many times. It is dishonest, and dishonesty is a lie. It puts your integrity as a pastor, even as Christian on the line. Every time you misquote someone and tell the board that they say something other than what they actually said (as above) you have lied.
    Your misunderstanding of this verse has led to your confusion. It doesn't say that the person who lies one time is a liar. You need to find out what the Bible teaches here about what a "liar" is. This is where your confusion lies. The Bible teaches that every man is a liar. If your interpretation is correct then heaven will be empty save for God and his angels.
    That is not true. When I see theological error being posted I attempt to refute it, as I am now. But look at your attitude. I point out your misrepresentation of my statements that it is indeed a lie, and you will jump to the conclusion that I have called you unsaved. That is indeed a lie in and of itself--a false accusation. It is inflammatory, emotional, and false. It does no good for debate. At some point you need to leave your emotions behind and admit that you are wrong. I believe it is pride that prohibits you from doing so, as well as a misunderstood theology.

    You would do better in answering with a well thought out response instead of emotionally attacking a person.
     
  10. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    The "can of worms" was opened, where you made the statement in post #223 that you had not engaged in any finger pointing. I disagreed, and gave myself as the example. I said nothing about anyone else. I fully admit, that I intentionally used the French word "moi", in place of "me," in my one word reply. I already gave my reason for using that term, namely that of irony, as the definition that you cited showed. I was not even aware of the fact that there is an element of "mock humility" involved with the use of the term, in some instances. (The "second can" was with your response to my post, there, and request for examples of which I gave four. Do you really want to go for can #3, here?) [​IMG]

    I have reported very few posts, on this board, and the ones I have reported usually involved "overt blatant racial hatred and bigotry," of the sort in which you thankfuly never engage, so I have no reason to report you, nor do I thinK I have, that I recall. I normally even post any suggestion I make as to closing a thread, directly in the thread!

    I had already been in the thread, with several posts, although I had not been been posting for the last few pages, except to greet new member, Dan Edwin, and directly answer a question posed by Heavenly Pilgrim, in a prior post, that I had overlooked. I had basically stopped posting when the thread had degenerated into accusations of lying and misrepresentations, for I felt it no longer served any purpose, and when a couple of fairly detailed theological posts I made generated little substantive response, of any sort, I was out of the thread, until, when catching up on the thread, I read this claim in that "I say calling someone a liar over and over is saying he is not saved, and that is what you do to me all the time. I have never pointed my finger at anyone on BB, that is another false accusation you made up."

    But I will claim that I did not "jump in the thread with" anything, and had you not made that particular claim of "I have never pointed my finger at anyone on BB,", I probably would not have been back in it, then or now. I find far more than enough "bad theology" out there, to respond to, as opposed to staying around in threads where little more than accusations and counter accusations are flying around. (It does not take me long to read posts and even threads; it takes me a fairly long time to compose responses, especially detailed ones.)

    The post before mine was one by DHK, and I do not presume to know his reasons any more than I presume to know yours, so he will have to answer for himself.

    I have stoned no one, now or then. Another's own words, be they the words of Amy.G, Brother Bob, bound, DHK, Heavenly Pilgrim, steaver, or trustitl, naming some posters on this thread alphabetically, or those of any other poster, are not my stones!

    There was also a statement made in this thread, that said this
    Correct! We are never told to 'answer that question,' that I know of. We are to preach the truth, and let the Holy Spirit do the convicting work. We are never told to try and 'get someone lost,' so that we can then, 'get them saved,' in any place of which, I am aware. It is an entirely different other thing to notice that someone's testimony is less than it should be, hence the church's responsibility for discipline, from that of going around with a flashlight and a magnifying glass, a la Sherlock Holmes, or "C.S.I." and trying to find a reason to doubt and judge another's salvation. The Holy Spirit will do His job, - of that, I am sure. We should stick to the one that is ours, IMO.

    In addition, I noticed this you posted in post # 46, but haven't commented on it until now.
    You mean like Jesus did, as to 'drama,' as in His story of the lost son??
    The Father and his two sons were personally known by Jesus, although He did not identify them.
    If this story you related doesn't capture the essence of the Father, awaiting the 'Prodigal,' in modern speech, then I don't know what ever could possibly do so. And assuming you did, in fact, "fall on your face" when giving it, I suggest the problem lay not with you, nor with the story, but with a "dull of hearing" audience, with 'closed ears.' BTW, 'the Prodigal' is NOT a parable (first 3 words of Lk. 15:11) and Jesus didn't exactly get an overwhelmingly positive response from many of His hearers (namely the Pharisees and scribes), after giving that example, either, for Luke says 'the Pharisees heard all these things and derided Him.' (Lk. 15:2; 16:14)

    Ed
     
    #250 EdSutton, Sep 17, 2008
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  11. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    No wonder the long face in your picture.

    This is indeed :tear:

    Your own testimony seems to be saying you are not completely sure of your destination, and that the final end will depend on you. and what you still do, at least in some part, apparently.

    Contrast your own words with what I testify to, and have testified to for 40 years.

    I know that I have eternal life, with no doubts, at all. I know this is by faith in Christ, and that this is based on His faithfulness, and not mine, else I could never KNOW that I have eternal life.
    In 'poetic language', my 'ticket' was 'paid in full' once and for all time, by the precious blood of the Lord Jesus, and I got my 'ticket,' by fath, apart from anything I coud have done to merit it, in any manner. The blood was the only purchase price, that was acceptable to the Lord, 'the station manager.' I was put on that train where God, the Father is the Engineer, and God, the Son is the Conductor. The Brakeman, God, the Holy Spirit, punched my ticket, then shut and sealed the door with an unbreakable seal. I am the lone rider, for this run, but I certainly am not alone for the Conductor said He would never kick me out (Jn. 6:37), or lose me (Jn. 6:39), and the crew said, four times, once for each person of that crew, and once for me, that they would never leave or forsake me, and have not. (Deut. 31:6, 8; Josh. 1:5; Heb. 13:5)

    There is no "Fireman" even permitted to be on this train. The tracks are sure, and there is no obstacle on the track that will derail it, in any manner on its journey, for the all seeing God has seen each and every inch of track, and my eyes are looking for the departure station that is located at Glory, in the New Jerusalem. The crew has never had the first mishap, nor lost a Passenger, for all the millions of runs, this train has made! And I am not going to be the first casualty!

    "All- Aboard! Next stop - New Jerusalem!" :thumbs:

    Ed
     
    #251 EdSutton, Sep 17, 2008
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  12. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I only try and defend the attacks made on me, such as calling me a liar. You have even said that I am a liar every time I come on the board. You now say that it must be a continueous liar to be a liar that fits Rev. Well if I lie every time I come on BB, that would be contineous and therefore you are calling me a contineous liar and questioning my salvation.

    BBob,
     
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    You have not right to commit on my avatar, it is cruel and unjust. The sadness is because of the false teachers of the doctrine.

    You have no right to question my knowledge of salvation, it is against the rules of BB. You have broken the rules and hurt my feelings.


    Where do you find in scripture that the way to Heaven, is a "train". Where do you find that God is an "engineer". Where do you get all of this "drama".

    Ed, you did not come on this thread to upbuild God's Kingdom. If you say you did, I do not believe you.
    If you want to talk about finger pointing of which I was discussing with another member when you jumped in for you usual Godly work. There was a fellow in our association, that when there was going to be trouble at a church, he would show up everytime. For some reason, you remind me of that person.

    You are so sure of your salvation, but if you say, you have never doubted yourself in all these years, I will not believe that either. This is all. IMO

    I think these people may have been playing choo choo train also: I am sure they would of told you they were going to Heaven.

    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

    Mat 7:21¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Choo Choo, talk about "drama" wow!!, wonder who will lay the track?

    Rom 8:24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

    Never found this in scripture, must be made up, for "drama"? IMO

    BBob,
     
    #253 Brother Bob, Sep 17, 2008
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  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Then, if you read these quotes carefully, objectively, without allowing your emotions to get in your way, you might come across an obvious truth.
     
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    DHK;
    When a person lies it no way affects their salvation.

    Scripture:
    Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Rom 3:4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    Scripture: Not DHK doctrine.

    BBob,
     
    #255 Brother Bob, Sep 17, 2008
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  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is true.
    And thus your accusation of me questioning your salvation each time I point out a misrepresentation of something you say is false.

    In spite of what you may think this verse has nothing to do with one's salvation, even if they tell a lie.

    Romans 3:4 applies to you also. It testifies (every man a liar) that you are a liar.
    So how do you reconcile Rev.21:8 and Romans 3:4 together. The one testifies that all men are liars; the other, that all liars will have their place in the lake of fire?
     
    #256 DHK, Sep 17, 2008
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  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    What you posted is DHK doctrine. What I posted is the word of God.

    It is a shame that someone like you can quote Romans 3:4 as if it makes all men a liar.

    4: God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    Scripture is saying if you differ from God, it is God who is truthful. If it meant all men, no one would go to Heaven. You lack in understanding DHK;


    BBob,
     
    #257 Brother Bob, Sep 17, 2008
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  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No, Bob. I used the same Scripture you used.
    I just expounded on it.
    I can explain what it says. Can you?
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    expound this one too, while you are in the mood:

    Rev 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    BBob,
     
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Be glad to.
    It means that when Christ saved me, he forgave all my sins: past, present and future. If I should die right now, I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I would go straight to heaven, for all my sins are forgiven. If I were to backslide and end up like Lot, drunk, and die in a car accident, I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I would go to heaven. My life is secure in God's hand. Salvation is of the Lord. It is all of God. It is not of works. I don't have to strive and work my way to heaven. I don't have to try to keep myself clean to get to heaven. Christ has forgiven all my sins--"not in part but the whole. He has nailed them to the tree, and I bear them no more. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. O my soul!"
     
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