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Translating the Intended Meaning

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Source language words can have a range of meanings. In English, cool could be intended to mean niffy or cold. Sometimes words are used to indicate something related, thus a "thermos" refers to a vacuum bottle. And of course phrases can have an intended meaning far from the literal meaning of the phrase words, such as "up a creek" means in a difficult situation, especially if one is "without a paddle."

    With this reality in mind, the best translation philosophy is to translate each word or phrase meaning using a unique English word or phrase. Thus sanctified would not be used, because it can mean two different things, but "set apart" or "made holy" would be used to convey the intended meaning.

    Sometimes overlap cannot be avoided, thus different source language words might need to be translated using the same English word or phrase, but overlap should be avoided or minimized.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    An import feature of word meaning for word meaning translation is use of the historical meaning or meanings in use at the time the source text was written. Thus if a word was used to mean say three different things, then three unique English words or phrases would be used to translate the word, not ten or twenty as is often found in some of the more dynamic equivalence translations. Just thumb through an exhaustive concordance for the NIV to see what I mean.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Let us consider three related words from John 6:37. Here is how the NASB translates the verse:

    “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

    One view of this verse has the meaning of all that the Father enables with irresistible grace to have faith in Me, will irresistibly come to have saving faith in Me, and the one who comes to have faith in Me, I will not cast out.

    Obviously this view does not explain how a person came to be in Christ such that Christ will not cast him or her out. So lets back up and look at the historical meanings of the three highlighted in red words.

    First "gives" can mean to put or place someone or something in the hands or control of another. Thus "gives" could be translated "transfers to" as in transferring someone out of the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His beloved Son.

    Second,the word translated "come" means to arrive so that the meaning is all that the Father transfers to Me will arrive in Me.

    Third, the word translated "comes" simply means to go from one place into another. Thus, the one who comes into Me, I will certainly not cast out.

    In summary, using different translation choices within the historical meanings of the three words, we have a very different message, "All that the Father transfers to Me, shall arrive in Me, and the one who comes into Me I will certainly not cast out. Thus the verse describes redemption where God transfers a person out of the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His beloved Son.,
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Paul used the Greek word "called" three ways, to invite, to name, and to change the status of a person. If instead of translating all three meanings as "called" we should translate each meaning using a unique word or phrase, such as (1) invite, (2) call, and (3) positionally sanctify.
     
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This is all very well and good, but it would be preferable if you actually translated into English.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks RSR, I do not get much encouragement for pointing out the obvious.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    An adjective is used to modify or describe a noun or another adjective. For example in Romans 1:1, Paul (noun) is “called an apostle.” Is the idea Paul was named as an apostle, or that he was divinely appointed to be an apostle? Either meaning fits. We know that Paul”s special mission was to be the apostle to the Gentiles, thus the following phrase, set apart for the gospel of God, points to his appointment as an apostle. Lets try “divinely designated” when someone is appointed to a task or ministry, and “positionally sanctified” when someone is chosen and placed spiritually in Christ.

    Using these alternate translation choices, Romans 1:1 would read “…divinely designated as an apostle” and Romans 1:6 would read “…positionally sanctified in Jesus Christ.”

    Here are the remaining 9 usages of the adjective Kletos:

    Roman 1:7 – positionally sanctified as saints
    Romans 8:28 – positionally sanctified according to His purpose
    1 Cor. 1:1 – Paul, divinely designated as an apostle
    1 Cor. 1:2 – saints by positional sanctification
    1 Cor. 1:24 – to those who are positionally sanctified
    Jude 1:1 – to those who are positionally sanctified
    Rev. 17:14 – who are the invited and chosen and faithful
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the altered version of Galatians 2:16 based on the study of the prepositional phrase: “ nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but by means of Jesus Christ's faithfulness, even we have believed into Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by Christ's faithfulness and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.”
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I think the translation of the Greek words as "repent, repentance" ought to be abandoned for "change of mind, change of view," as to what the Greek actually means.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi 37818, you present an interesting and challenging problem. As James pointed out there is a difference between dead faith (which does not alter behavior) and live faith (from which faithfulness flows).

    Repentance presents the idea of an accomplished action, a change of mind that results in a change of behavior. Scripture teaches the change of mind must be granted or allowed by God (i.e. the person's heart has not been hardened) and is the result of personal sorrow for one's sinful thoughts or acts. Thus a turn from going our own sinful way to going as best we can in God's way. God's kindness leads us to repentance.

    I think to present repentance as simply a change of mind, misses part of the intended message.

    But I suspect you had a reason for wanting to jettison repentance. What problem or misunderstanding are you worried about?

    Mat 3:8
    “Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance; G3341
    Luk 5:32
    “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” G3341

    Rom 2:4
    Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? G3341

    [​IMG] 2Co 7:10
    For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance G3341 [fn]without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
     
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