Tree of Life

HP: Agreed

HP: There are only two possible options. Either one was to live forever or one was not to live forever. If they were not to live forever prior to the fall, death would have had to have been invoked prior to sin. What else stood in the way of eternal life other than sin?

If man did not possess eternal life prior to the fall, man was not created with an eternal soul. Scripture tells us differently. Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Man might have been of like kind to the animals God created, but it would pose a great difficulty with the following text.
Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

HP: Then we are back to the only other option, and that is man was created to live forever and as such in possession of eternal life prior to the fall.

 

HP: You are so right. I apologize to both of you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by annsni
Scripture says that death entered because of sin - so how does that fit into the idea that Adam and Eve had to eat from the Tree of Life to live forever? I don't think that death was a part of creation until after the fall. Thoughts?

HP: If flesh is corrupuptible ‘by nature’ and not by sin, then how can physical death be any penalty at all?? According to the logic you employ they already had that death sentence “by nature.” Then you tell us that the wages of sin is ‘spiritual death.’ I thought you said earlier in your post that Adam and Eve “Scripture DOES NOT support the “spiritual death” idea but does the natural death.” You are not being consistent in the least as I see it. You are contradicting yourself. Possibly you might consider re-writing your post so as to be viewed as more consistent.

 

HP: Agreed
Quote:

HP: There are only two possible options. Either one was to live forever or one was not to live forever. If they were not to live forever prior to the fall, death would have had to have been invoked prior to sin. What else stood in the way of eternal life other than sin?

If man did not possess eternal life prior to the fall, man was not created with an eternal soul. Scripture tells us differently. Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Man might have been of like kind to the animals God created, but it would pose a great difficulty with the following text.
Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

HP: Then we are back to the only other option, and that is man was created to live forever and as such in possession of eternal life prior to the fall.

 

Physical flesh was not created to last for eternity. Flesh simply was created as a temporary house for an eternal soul. The Tree of Life could not have accomplished life eternal for the flesh, for again, it was not designed to inherit eternity.

I see two possible ideas consistent with the Tree of Life. First, that it was designed to keep the flesh as it was created for the full duration God allowed it to remain on this earth. Secondly that the Tree of Life, being a type of Christ (Christ being eternal) would keep the spirit/soul of man in perfect harmony and communion with their Creator God as long as they remained on this earth and in the life to come.

Because the flesh was not created to live in eternity, that does NOT mandate that it was corruptible by design. There is no reason to believe that it would have had to aged in the least if allowed consistent access with the Tree of Life, although God would have to change its nature at some point in time in order for the spirit/soul of man to inhabit eternity. This might have been accomplished by the translation of the flesh as Enoch and Elijah saw. There is no reason to believe that the physical bodies as created were corruptible by nature, or that if sin had not occurred that the flesh would have decayed and seen physical death at some point as we now know it. Again, if sin had not happened, God could have simply translated those at a time appointed by Himself, allowing the spirit/soul of man to inhabit eternity with God.

 

HP: We should be reminded that man is a two part being, and sin has its affect upon both. Certainly sin brought about physical degeneration, physical corruption and eventual death in cooperation with the timing of it as we know it. To attach ‘the penalty of sin’ to physical death I see as being in error. Sin is at its root a spiritual reality with spiritual consequences that the physical have no bearing upon neither could they.

The soul/spirit that sins, IT shall certainly die. Scripture is replete with ties of that which lives eternally with the penalty of sin. One of the plainest I can think of is the passage found in 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

There are many numerous reasons why physical death is NOT the penalty for sin. One that comes to the forefront of my mind is that fact that Christ suffered in our place, taking the penalty of sin upon Himself so that we might not have to suffer its penalty. Have we ceased from physical suffering as a result of repentance and faith in Christ? Is it a guarantee that we will not face physical death? If Christ atoned and paid the penalty, are we to believe that it has no bearing on that which we are most likely to suffer and face if we do not live until the rapture takes place? I think not. Reason would tell us that the penalty of sin, having been paid for by Christ, will NOT be suffered or encountered by His children. Why? The penalty has been atoned for. It will not, nor could it be required of us once laid upon the sole Sacrifice suffering and dying upon that cross at Calvary IF we are in Christ. The penalty has been atoned for and satisfied as it related to God and His law never to be poured out or required of those that fulfill the stated conditions of acceptance with God. That penalty paid must be eternal separation from God just as 2Thess 1:8-9 tells us.

 

HP: I cannot follow you clearly on this one BR. There was no intention on my part to make any distinction between a living soul and an immortal or eternal soul. Certainly the soul/spirit of man is not immortal in the same sense that God alone is immortal, but immortal carries more than one meaning. We both realize that we are created beings and as such have had a beginning. God had no such beginning. Still if one is to use a common definition of ‘immortal,’ that being simply “possessing life that will have no end,” (Noah webster) we are indeed immortal.

We are indeed in possession of an eternal soul, one that will spend eternity in either heaven with God or in hell with the devil and his angels. I can think of no plainer concept in the Word of God than that which would be in support of the existence of man possessing an eternal immortal soul.

 

HP: I for one indeed do believe in a physical resurrection, although I believe the physical, in tack or mere dust, will have to be changed in order to inhabit eternity. 1Co 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Entropy is a reality with the whole universe that we see, is it not? Does not God tell us that? 2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. The eternal cannot inhabit the temporal for eternity, for the temporal is not eternal. Only that which is eternal by nature will inhabit eternity. Again God plainly states that things which are seen, (that would be the human body as we know it) is not nor can be eternal in nature. Not by design or in reality.

I see nothing to indicate in Scripture nor experience that would indicate that God designed Adam to live captured for eternity in human flesh with all its limitations. He, i.e., God desires to set those that would repent and turn in trust to the Savior, Jesus Christ, from the bondage and limitations this flesh imposes upon us. Are there any on this list that are looking forward to that glorious release? Such freedom demands faithfulness. 2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

HP: I believe God has something far better for us than the bondage and limitations mere flesh genders. :thumbs: :godisgood: