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Trinity accreditation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by paidagogos, Sep 8, 2008.

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  1. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Trinity recently sent out the following information via email to prospective students.

    Our New Catalog takes effect on September 12th, 2008. Enroll Now under the 2007-2008 catalog for only $249 per class!​
    Many changes have taken place with Trinity over the last several years and significant changes are on the horizon. Trinity is actively working towards an application for accreditation with a U.S. Department of Education (USDE) recognized agency for programs not already validated by the University of Wales and this application is scheduled to be made by the Fall. In addition to increased restrictions and prerequisites for our doctoral programs, THE PH.D PROGRAMS WILL NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th.

    We hope that you still have an interest in a Ph.D. program and we want you to be a part of this great growing experience with Trinity. To help you manage with the expense of continuing your education, we are offering an opportunity to enroll in the Ph.D for only $249 per class (excluding textbooks and enrollment fees).     To take advantage of this offer, you must enroll in at least 3 classes and pay your tuition and fees in full. All classes can be completed 100% through distance/online education and are self-paced, to complement your lifestyle and schedule.
    Time for this program is limited AND THE PH.D PROGRAMS WILL NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th and NO extensions will be available so you will need to act quickly by calling me at 1-866-203-4175
    to make your arrangements!         ​
    Please remember that the tuition reduction plan of $249 per class refers to tuition only and only applies to the classes you register for. It does not cover the cost of textbooks or enrollment fees and will not apply to the 12 week online or University of Wales classes. Standard fees will also apply to seminar classes.

    Dr. Robert Shigley
    Doctoral Enrollment Advisor
    1-866-203-4175
    Trinity College of the Bible and Trinity Theological Seminary
    4233 Medwel Dr.
    Newburgh IN 47630 ​

    What do you think? Is it the same old game of Trinity applying for accreditation and withdrawing upon determining that their program cannot meet the accreditation requirements? Have they found a new accreditor who may accredit them without significant changes? Who is the new accreditor? DETC? TRACS? What's their game plan? Are they really making significant changes to bring their programs up to snuff? Let us hear what you think?


    ​
     
    #1 paidagogos, Sep 8, 2008
  2. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Addition Question?

    Hey Paid:

    I thought all who frequented this part of the Bb had died? Glad to see someone alive and kicking!

    I had a thought (that may unique in itself?:laugh: )!

    Does it not seem oxymoronic to be applying for accreditation on the one hand and then advertising and even urging people to enroll in a PhD program that is not going to be around after a certain date? Have I understood that correctly? Clue me in here will ya? Did I misread it in a hurry?

    "Stay by the stuff!":wavey:
     
    #2 Rhetorician, Sep 8, 2008
  3. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Right! This raises the question of their motive in pursuing accreditation. Are they seeking academic quality or a means of sustaining their enrollment and profitability? This appears to be a profit-driven ploy to stampede prospects into signing. How sincere are they in their quest for academic recognition? For what reason?

    Trinity, I think, has fallen upon hard times in the marketplace. At one time, they appeared a viable option for good quality men who needed/desired further education but were unable to do it traditionally. Trinity held promise of a credible program that was progressing toward acceptance and accreditation when DE in the US was new and competition was minimal. Today, there are many good, reputable DE programs. Trinity, due to internal dessension, profit-taking greed, shady dealings, etc., failed to grow and progress apace with the industry. Their attempts at accreditation and respectability fell through the cracks. Trinity, I suspect, is drawing more of the diploma mill crowd who desire a degree for the capital letters. Without accreditation, they are strapped in attracting high quality students. This is, I think, a business decision.

    What do you think?
     
    #3 paidagogos, Sep 8, 2008
  4. michaelbowe

    michaelbowe Member

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    This validation from the University of Whales is quite a big thing, but not every program has been validated, only the undergraduate and master's program, at least this is what the website mentions. I am not sure how big this is, but everything I have read states it is a high accreditation. I agree the institution has problems, for the price of tuition, why not go to an accredited distance education program like, Liberty University, or Amridge University. Both of those are accredited and the tuition is not too pricey, and both institutions provide financial aid through grants, scholarships, and if needed loans. The people Trinity are trying to appeal to is the get a degree quick or better get the title quick. This is not the case with everyone mind you, but they state a problem:

    " Trinity has provided access to Christian higher education for nearly 40 years and currently has approximately 5000 students enrolled in its distance learning programs." (http://www.trinitysem.edu/AboutTrinity/Accreditation.html)

    but

    "Trinity is actively working towards an application for accreditation with a U.S. Department of Education (USDE) recognized agency for programs not already validated by the University of Wales. " (Ibid)

    Now I am no expert on accreditation, but I know it does not take 40 years to obtain accreditation. If someone wants an unaccredited degree, which I do not recommend, there are several better institutions that are cheaper in tuition. The reality the use of a degree title from Trinity in parts of the US is illegal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_College_and_Seminary)
     
    #4 michaelbowe, Sep 8, 2008
  5. Mr. E

    Mr. E New Member

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    Trinity, Wales and Accreditation

    Hi Everyone!
    The Wales validation of specific programs is very interesting. I have looked into this program with great interest, but could not get all of my questions answered by Trinity staff. When discussing the program, some of my questions were either ignored or side stepped. A big concern that I have is that Wales allows Trinity to offer an exemption for some of the lower level courses. All you need is 18 transferable CU's and you can be eligible for acceptance. Furthermore, for 500 and some odd dollars, you can complete this requirement with Trinity. The time frame that was presented to me to complete this was withinin three months!
    I had 48 CU's from an RA college, to transfer. They would only use 18 for transfer and the rest was "exempted"? I am within a semester of graduating with an AA and l have inquired upon many schools and they all are eager to sell their programs, openly and completely. Why, then was Trinity's advisor stand offish and not forth coming with answers to my concerns? Some of my concerns were:
    1) How was this arrangement between Trinity and Wales viewed within the academic community?
    2) What are a student's proctor qualifications and how are tests administered?
    3) Validation fees, tuitions fees and other costs.
    4) How are current students progressing in their courses and are there delays with level advancements?
    I could not commit without feeling assured that Trinity's troubled past is truly behind them. I did some limited independent research and come across this article in a web search: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=402842&sectioncode=26
    The article is written by Melanie Newman, for Times Higher Education and was posted only two months ago. I must admit that I am not sure of the THE's credibility in the UK, but it's worth a read at the very least.
     
    #5 Mr. E, Sep 8, 2008
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I believe people need to just stay away from Trinity until they can send clear signals.
     
    #6 TCGreek, Sep 10, 2008
  7. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I wonder if Masters School of Divinity and this new Newburgh Seminary are other ways Trinity can still have their Ph.D cake and eat it too.
     
    #7 TomVols, Sep 10, 2008
  8. Mr. E

    Mr. E New Member

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    Interesting link...?

    Good day!
    Is there a definitie link between Trinity, MIDS and Newburgh (besides geographically)? If so, it will be interesting to see how Trinity will treat transfers from these two.
     
    #8 Mr. E, Sep 11, 2008
  9. mjohnson7

    mjohnson7 Member

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    University of Wales

    Okay, please someone correct me if I'm wrong here.....the Trinity website is a bit ambiguous (btw, I understand the accreditation issue, so if you reply to my post please, please do not rehash that....I understand Trinity is unaccredited and I'm not interested in an unaccredited degree) but according to the University of Wales' website, and my understanding of it, they validate selected programs at Trinity. If you successfully complete one of the validated programs, the earned degree will be conferred by the University of Wales rather than Trinity. Did I read that right?? If this is correct, it seems like a heck of a deal. Any thoughts? Resident scholars please weigh in.....but remember to actually READ my post before replying.
     
    #9 mjohnson7, Sep 11, 2008
  10. michaelbowe

    michaelbowe Member

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    That is correct, against the QA's advice the University of Whales has essentially granted Trinity the ability to confer degree's from the University. This is a great deal, if it lasts.
     
    #10 michaelbowe, Sep 11, 2008
  11. Mr. E

    Mr. E New Member

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    Hi Michaelbowe,
    The last part of your statement really hits it. "... if it lasts." Trinity's pursuit of alternate types of accreditation and their inconsitancy to remain with any particular accrediting organization is very concerning. Trinity does have highly credentialed educators on staff and appears to be turning the corner. I hope their latest pursuit of USDoE recognised accreditation is successful.
     
    #11 Mr. E, Sep 12, 2008
  12. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Mr. E Reponse

    Hello Mr. E,

    Welcome to the BB. I am sure you will make some great contributions to the BB in the future.

    I too hope that Trinity gets its act together. I am "pro" any institution who trains people for the ministry. But I do want them to get good training and to be good stewards of the Lord's money.

    I have not investigated Trinity in depth but know that they have had a bad rep here on the BB in years gone by. It is very difficult to live down a bad image or reputation once it has been established.

    I wish them well and all of those who seek to study there. I would, however, wish a "pox" on all those who seek degrees or grant degees for the "title's sake" and forsake good, sound, Biblical, and doctrinal education. And this type comes about by prayer, fasting, and just plain old hard work.

    My two cents worth.

    "Stay by the stuff!"
     
    #12 Rhetorician, Sep 12, 2008
  13. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I guess I'm wondering that. I have always heard that Trinity and MDS are linked.

    Any info, anyone?
     
    #13 TomVols, Sep 12, 2008
  14. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    I was in the TTS PhD in Bible in 2000-2001. After a few courses it was apparent to me that (1) the doctoral curricula was at MDiv level or below in prerequisites, expectations, and materials, (2) TTS was misrepresenting its accreditational status, (3) and TTS was far from being an example of "world class" education. I dropped out. Perhaps TTS is much improved in both rigor and truthfulness in seven years, but I doubt it.
     
    #14 UZThD, Sep 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2008
  15. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    Personally, I don't think they will ever be able to get past their past . . .

    Again, JMHO.
     
    #15 mcdirector, Sep 13, 2008
  16. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

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    I lost my pile of money at TTS. IMHO they are a rip-off artist colony, not wanting to admit that accreditation is NEVER going to happen.
     
    #16 Major B, Sep 13, 2008
  17. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Well, when we think they are on the right path, they have a way of remind us.
     
    #17 TCGreek, Sep 14, 2008
  18. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Those of us who have been concerned about Trinity for years have seen this horse and pony show before. Indeed, there is nothing new under the sun or a Trinity.
     
    #18 Martin, Sep 19, 2008
  19. Mr. E

    Mr. E New Member

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    Calling all Trinity College and Seminary students and graduates

    One thing that I have noticed is that we do not hear of many (any?) alumni defending Trinity or promoting the college. Surely, somebody on this board has graduated from Trinity and can offer some positive insight to this discussion, right? I would really like to hear their perspective on Trinity's accreditation situation and any positive experiences about the school that they would like to share.
     
    #19 Mr. E, Sep 20, 2008
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I finished a D.Min thru Trinity back in 79. Part of my work was to develop "university without walls" curricula that would move them past their initial "mickey-mouse" requirements and equate them with a true seminary.

    Spent some time in Toledo (where they were located) and then Evansville. The program from that point was very much equivalent to an MDiv level and buildings were started to house a full campus/library, etc.

    I was contacted around 2004 by the Education Department to evaluate my training, satisfaction, equivalency, etc from Trinity to other residential programs. Good interviews (and about 26 pages of forms!!)

    I assumed Trinity was pushing ahead to beef up a real campus, etc, and as so many schools were jumping on board with on-line external programs, what once had been a "stigma" now showed Trinity to be "cutting edge".

    Sadly, they drifted from that and seem to be dead in the water presently. I have an elder in our church finishing an MA right now, and he is happy with the requirements/academics. But GLAD to see a PhD program stopping. That is a farce.
     
    #20 Dr. Bob, Sep 28, 2008
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