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Trinity plus........

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Bro. Curtis, Dec 13, 2001.

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  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Now take it easy on me, I'm a technician, not a theologian, so .......

    I have seen challenges to prove the Trinity with scripture. But not once is the word trinity in there. But we know the following to be true.

    We have God manifest to us in these ways.

    God the Father. Mt 5:16, Mk 14:36, Lk 6:36, Jn 1:14, & countless other references in the Gospels, & in every Epistle God is refered to as our Father.

    Jesus was the son of God, or, God the Son. John 10:30 takes care of this one.

    The Holy Spirit of God, living inside of us.(John 14:17) Gen 1:2 says God's spirit moved on the waters, John 16:8 places the Holy Spirit as an equal to God, so we say "God, the Holy Spirit".

    And now for my point....

    I say God is manifest to us also in his word, The Word of God, Or God, the word. I'm using John 1:1 as a reference. I think the Word of God is equal to the Holy Spirit of God, & is a gift to us, like his son was a gift to us.

    I'm asking if, by calling God a trinity, we are somehow limiting(or trying to) him. Trying to put him into our limited understanding.


    Any thoughts....?
     
    #1 Bro. Curtis, Dec 13, 2001
  2. Blake

    Blake New Member

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    Mr. Curtis

    We cannot truly limit God, but our understanding will always be of the limited sort while were alive. Inasmuch as He knows our limitations, He has only shown us what is possible for us to comprehend. As for His Word, are you talking about the Bible?
     
    #2 Blake, Dec 13, 2001
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    My thinking is that "the word was God" probably refers to the Bible. Scripture tells us his word will always be.

    The reason I posted this is to maybe stop people from getting hung up on the trinity, & admitting we don't have any way of knowing the different ways God manifests himself to us.
     
    #3 Bro. Curtis, Dec 13, 2001
  4. Blake

    Blake New Member

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    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    The Word is Jesus Christ, and the reason for the debate on the trinity is because some see Christ as seperate from God.

    [ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Blake ]
     
    #4 Blake, Dec 13, 2001
  5. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    So you disagree with the Bible being " God the Word" ?


    Sorry if I miss your point.
     
    #5 Bro. Curtis, Dec 13, 2001
  6. Blake

    Blake New Member

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    I will agree that the Bible is the Word of God. I will not agree that the binded papers and leather cover are God. Jesus is the Word of whom John speaks, not something made of man. Christ was the Word spoken at the beginning through which all was created. Christ is the Word of the OT through which the laws were made and the prophets spoke. Christ is who became flesh and died so we might know life. So the Word of God is Christ and Christ is the Word. (Hope it's not to much drama)
     
    #6 Blake, Dec 13, 2001
  7. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I'm not talking about the leather, paper, etc either. I'm talking about his word. The indestructable word of God. Not what it is printed on, but what is printed. I wouldn't hold up an object & worship it, but I worship what I read, I believe God shows himself to me thru what I read. I believe we are to treasure his words like we treasure his spirit, like we treasure our future with him.

    And I agree most emphatically with your last sentence. It is the crux of what I'm trying to start. A discussion on God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, & God the Word.

    [ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]
     
    #7 Bro. Curtis, Dec 13, 2001
  8. Blake

    Blake New Member

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    I'm not sure how this will sound but here goes; Jesus is the Word, the Word is God. The Word given to men that is written down was Jesus, His nature, His will for us, His miracles, and His judgements. It's how we can know Him to be; real, truthful, faithful, righteous, and Holy. Hope that isn't confusing the issue.

    [ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Blake ]
     
    #8 Blake, Dec 13, 2001
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I was hoping for a bil long thread, but.... oh well. You have answered well. God the Word IS Jesus. I see. Thanx :D :D
     
    #9 Bro. Curtis, Dec 13, 2001
  10. Blake

    Blake New Member

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    If you want to go about it the easy way yeah "God the Word is Jesus" works.
     
    #10 Blake, Dec 13, 2001
  11. Joe Meert

    Joe Meert New Member

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    One thought is that the trinity derives from the polytheistic origins of Judaism. When monotheism became the preferred mode, the notion of trinity became a clever way to move from a polytheism to monotheism.

    Cheers

    Joe Meert
     
    #11 Joe Meert, Dec 13, 2001
  12. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Meert:
    One thought is that the trinity derives from the polytheistic origins of Judaism. When monotheism became the preferred mode, the notion of trinity became a clever way to move from a polytheism to monotheism.

    Cheers

    Joe Meert    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Your hypothesis is totally incorrect. Judaism began as montheism, as Abraham was called out of his pagan land. The "notion of a trinity" is no way to move from polytheism to monotheism. In fact, the montheistic Jews did and still do reject the Trinity as it appears to deny the shema of Judaism "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut 6.4)

    The Trinity is a doctrine derived from the clear implications of Scripture.

    Matt 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
    17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    I'm moving this thread to the Theology forum.
     
    #12 Chris Temple, Dec 13, 2001
  13. Joe Meert

    Joe Meert New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:


    Your hypothesis is totally incorrect.
    .    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    JM: Well, it's not my hypothesis. there are a number of Christian and other scholars who argue this point regularly.

    Cheers

    Joe Meert
     
    #13 Joe Meert, Dec 13, 2001
  14. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Meert:


    JM: Well, it's not my hypothesis. there are a number of Christian and other scholars who argue this point regularly.

    Cheers

    Joe Meert    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    There are NO Christian scholars who argue this point. And Scripture is the standard of perfect truth, not any scholar.

    And please do not post on Baptist and/or Christian boards.
     
    #14 Chris Temple, Dec 13, 2001
  15. Joe Meert

    Joe Meert New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:


    There are NO Christian scholars who argue this point. And Scripture is the standard of perfect truth, not any scholar.

    And please do not post on Baptist and/or Christian boards.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    JM: Actually, I just read some discussion on this point. I'll have to dig it out. You should really rethink your policy. WWJD if confronted with an agnostic? Would he talk about and discuss the tenets of his faith or tell that person to leave?
    Cheers

    Joe Meert
     
    #15 Joe Meert, Dec 13, 2001
  16. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Meert:


    JM: Actually, I just read some discussion on this point. I'll have to dig it out. You should really rethink your policy. WWJD if confronted with an agnostic? Would he talk about and discuss the tenets of his faith or tell that person to leave?
    Cheers

    Joe Meert    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    There are places on this board for discussions between believers and nonbelievers.

    If a person cannot even follow the rules of a website he is visiting, I doubt that "discussing tenets of the faith" would be very profitable.
     
    #16 Chris Temple, Dec 13, 2001
  17. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Back to my question. Does anybody agree with me, in that God's word, is God the Word, like the Holy Spirit, & Jesus, are God ?


    I guess I got lost in the last few posts.
     
    #17 Bro. Curtis, Dec 14, 2001
  18. Joe Meert

    Joe Meert New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:

    If a person cannot even follow the rules of a website he is visiting, I doubt that "discussing tenets of the faith" would be very profitable.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    JM: That's a clever way to avoid the issue. Where better to learn about Theology and Bible study than under the heading?

    Cheers

    Joe Meert
     
    #18 Joe Meert, Dec 14, 2001
  19. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Maybe we should just close the thread.I was just posing a question.
    But I do agree with Chris. I was only interested in what Bible believing Christians thought.
     
    #19 Bro. Curtis, Dec 14, 2001
  20. Barnabas H.

    Barnabas H. <b>Oldtimer</b>

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    Joe, in order to avoid public scrutiny I have sent you a PM (Private Message) of which you did not reply nor heed unto. As a result I have to ask you openly, please do not to post anything on Baptists Only forums. Since you have let us know pretty candidly about your current religious affiliation, it is only fair that you restrict yourself to the Free For All forums ONLY. Thank you for your kind cooperation. [​IMG]
     
    #20 Barnabas H., Dec 14, 2001
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