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True Church _IS_ True Israel

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Bismarck, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    Duplicate post
     
    #61 Linda64, Sep 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2007
  2. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    According to that verse, Christ WAS made a CURSE. He is NO LONGER on the cross. By the authority of Scripture, I can truthfully and without hesitation say that Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven in a glorified body. Why are you putting Christ back on the cross?

    Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33)

    But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Acts 7:55-56)

    Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34)

    If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (Colossians 3:1)

    And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. (Revelation 21:27)

    Since nothing that defiles can enter God's presence, we know for sure that Jesus Christ is NOT accursed, else we would know that Jesus is not in heaven. The curse was removed when Jesus was glorified. After all the biblical evidence that Christ is NO LONGER accursed, how can you say that He is?
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

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    Scripture does declare that "Cursed be every one that hangeth upon a tree", but Christ is no longer on that tree. Christ is now in a glorified body and is sitting at the right hand of the Majesty on High.

    When Christ presented His own blood at the altar in Heaven, an angry God granted forgiveness and removed the curse from His Son.

    The curse of sinful flesh no longer is upon our Lord, it has been lifted.
     
    #63 standingfirminChrist, Sep 30, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2007
  4. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    That remnant was the Jewish Christian Church. That remnant included Jews like James the Just, Simon Peter, John, and Saul Paulus.

    During the Jewish Revolt (66-70 AD), that remnant was saved. The armies of Rome left Jerusalem for a time, and the Jewish Christians fled to Pella.

    That remnant did not include Unbelieving Jews, like Eleazar ben Jair, and other Jewish militant terrorist Sicarii.
     
  5. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    Name-calling is not sufficient grounds for Doctrinal development.
     
  6. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    How can Unbelieving Jews deny the pre-existing Messiah?

    Nobody is denying the existence of the Jewish nation, a kinfolk of blood.

    The issue is whether that blood kin-folk is lawfully still "God's People", given their rejection of His Messiah.

    Yes, the Jews exist.

    The UN even created a nation and called it "Israel" in 1948.

    Does that mean everything the UN does is Scripturally based?? The Gnostic heretics called themselves the "True Christians", but were they??

    What the UN does, and what Scripture decrees, are two wildly different things. The UN can blather on forever, passing decrees, and writing the letters "I-S-R-A-E-L" on pieces of "legal" paper...

    it doesn't change one jot or tiddle of Scripture.


    If Scripture says Jews by blood, who reject the Messiah, are rejected in turn by YHWH-God the Father...

    then that is the way it is.

    (Unless Scripture errors.)
     
  7. Bismarck

    Bismarck New Member

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    SFiC,

    Who exactly are these "False Jews"??

    To use an analogy from the movie Terminator, who are the CyberDyne Systems T-100 HK "infiltrator" drones dressed up in a "Jewish over-flesh" to masquerade as Jews when they are really agents of SkyNet (=satan)?

    Who are they who say, words out of their mouths, "I am a Jew", "I am Israel"...

    when in fact they just lie through their teeth and are full of it and everybody in the know knows it?

    Who are they, addressed in Revelation?
     
  8. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    This was the statement:

    "If you were consistent in your theology, the curses of the OT (written in the Book of Deut) would then apply to all the leaders throughout history--Ruth, David, and Christ himself. Why? Because before that time the whole nation had gone astray, and thus according to you the whole nation would have inherited the curse. Do you serve an accursed Christ? What a weird theology you have?"

    Was Jesus accursed? Yes. I never said He still was. Notice how no one will answer my questions:

    1.Were the curses of Dt. only for the Jewish leaders?

    2. Do they still apply today?
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Yes, answer mine, too. Post #29 will refresh your memory.
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Oh what the hey! We can give up on DHK answering any significant questions. Let's pretend. What would DHK answer if he actually could answer the question.

    Aaron: DHK, why won't you speak to Matthew's treatment of Hosea 11:1?

    DHK: Because it undercuts all my Dispensationalist notions about Israel and the Church and the interpretation of OT prophecy. So I'm just going to ignore the questions and they'll go away. :type:
     
  11. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    "Was Jesus accursed?" was not the question--"Do you serve an accursed Christ?" (you have that underlined too) was the question and you answered: "Yes I serve an accursed Christ:" and you quoted Galatians 3:13.

    Now to answer your questions:

    No, they were not. They were for EVERYBODY at that time--nobody was exempt. This was spoken to the children of Israel--not the Church.

    Deuteronomy 29:24-29 24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger? 25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: 26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: 27 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: 28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day. 29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

    It was the Mosaic Covenant which the children of Israel forsook--the Mosaic Covenant was NOT given to the Church. The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34), which was given to the nation of Israel, replaces the Mosaic Covenant. Christians share in the spiritual aspects of the New covenant through Christ (Heb 8:13), but the New Covenant was NOT transferred to the Church and does not replace the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants--which will be fulfilled in the Millennial Kingdom along with the New Covenant.

    Read Deuteronomy 28:1-68 for the blessings and curses.
    As applying to the Church, no, because the blessings and curses were made under the Mosaic Covenant.

    Deuteronomy 28:1 1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

    Deuteronomy 28:15 15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

    As pertaining to the Body of Christ/the Church (born again Jew and Gentile) they share in the "spiritual" blessings of the New Covenant through Christ. However, Jesus said:

    John 3:36 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 5:24 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    1 John 5:12 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

    Therefore, the unsaved/lost are under God's wrath; the born again/saved are not under God's wrath, but have passed from death unto life.
     
    #71 Linda64, Oct 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2007
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