TULIP Redefined

Absolutely! That's what the text says! It's simple math. Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world. When you believe you are placed in Christ.

Here's the entire context. What other of the "in Christ's" are "to be" and not because?

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. 11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

 

Well certainly I fall in the ranks of the protestant reformation, but I do denigrate Catholics....I love them too. I certainly remain convinced that "free will" is part of God's design for us created in His imago del. What I really dont appreciate is the tone and accusation that any one who holds to mans "free will" somehow means that we have a low or non-existent view of God's sovereignty. A total falsehood.

1. Do I believe that man is depraved.... yes but not to the extent as defined by Calvinism.
2. Do I believe in unconditional election.....no not in the way described by reformational theology. I believe faith is a condition for salvation and by default election.
3. Do I believe in Limited Atonement.....It depends. I believe the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for ALL Mankind, those who respond to the HS in faith are granted the efficiency of this atonement.
4. Do I believe in Irrisistible Grace.....No, man has the authority and ability to resist God right to the very end and thus seal for himself eternal separation from God
5. Perseverance... Yes, I believe once a person becomes a child of God through faith and repentance they are sealed, however, I do understand that some of my fellow believers can legitimately feel different and I respect that.

Does this clarify a bit?

 

Are you saying then that were are in Christ before the foundation of the world. We are in Christ before we are born. We are in Christ when we are born. We are in Christ after we are born before we are saved? Is that what your are saying, or did I misunderstand you?

 

When we believed we entered with Christ who is chosen from the beginning. God choose to save believers and now we are one with Him and Him being the head.

 

You didn't answer the question. We are the ones chosen according to the Bible. Now, were you in Christ before the foundation of the world?

 

Yes. It's one of the many paradoxes in the Bible like us now being seated with Christ currently...

6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

Positionally, yes. Just as I am not "fully" saved until I am with the Lord yet I am saved positionally.

 

I like how you said "paradoxes." That's how I look at regeneration/faith issue.

 

Ok, I can live with that. We are saved, being saved and will be saved, but we are saved now!

 

You made my day!

 

Thanks for the civil discusion with you two. I hope I have been civil as well. My sister and her husband are up for the weekend so I'm going to be off the computer for now. (and my charger is across the room and don't feel like getting it)

Have a good weekend and good church services tomorrow.

 

We entered with Him when we trusted in Him not apart from Him. Where He is we are there also

 

Have a good one yourself. Enjoy your family. You are always civil. I appreciate that. :1_grouphug:

 

Yes thank you....I just wanted to know how far away from one another you & I are.

Have a good weekend!

 

I am waiting for a TULIP promoter interpret 1 Sam 16:14-16.

 

You too my brother and my friend.

 

Same here. You are one of the reformed posters I enjoy talking with here. God bless.

 

I have an honest question for you, jbh. I am curious why people keep posting "we are saved, being saved, and will be saved, but we are saved now." Why does anyone say this? I had never heard this before I came on here, and I am just curious. Will you please elaborate.

I believe that when the Lord saved me, He gave me eternal life right then and there, and I am no longer waiting on it, but have it now. Now, when I leave this "low ground of sorrow", my soul will go back to Him who gave it, but my body will molder back to dust. I still have eternal life in my soul, I will just be waiting for the Lord to come and bring my body out of the ground in a glodified body likened unto His most glorious body. Just please expound on that question I asked in the first paragraph, please.