Featured Two good arguments for a Pretrib Rapture

Here is your problem. There are many good scholars who put the rapture at the beginning or middle or end of the Tribulation. They still believe in the Tribulation, and they still believe in Millennial Kingdom. They don't dismiss dispensationalism. In fact, as your link proves dispensationalism started right back at Ireaneus, much farther back in history than Calvinism or your beloved Covenantal theology, especially the kind that teaches that the so-called "church" either is an extension of, or replaces Israel. It does neither.
However, even your link proves that dispensationalism, per se, was believed by scholars all throughout the ages.

Darby is your problem not mine. I don't use him as an authority; you do. I don't quote from Darby; you do. Why do you quote from one who is a failure in your opinion?
Me? The Word of God is my authority. I have told you that many times.

If you are going to debate me, it will have to be on the basis of God's Word, not on the basis of whom you call "preeminent authorities in their fields." I don't really care about men's opinions. The question is: "What saith the Lord?" Do you care?

Laugh all you will. The fact is that you are not quoting from the Word. You are quoting the words of men. In that you fail.

Perhaps I understand it more than you think.

I can know and understand what the Bible teaches. Just because you can't grasp some of these truths doesn't mean my understanding is as limited.

Man is made in God's image. Part of that image is a free will to choose between good and evil. God does not force me to do anything, including typing the words that is in this box. What I type I do of my own free will. I can choose to yield to my flesh or yield to the Spirit. Paul said that:

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
--This is a choice that every believer must make every day, and it is made freely with the mind. With the mind one chooses to serve the law of God. It is a choice that you freely make. No one forces you to do it. The choice is yours.

1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
God alone is immortal. He is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.
So, yes:
"God is timeless. He sees outside the boundaries of time. He eternal. He created time for man's sake."

God created all things, including time, and therefore is not bound by time, but lives outside of its realm.
His knowledge does not cause things to come into being.
His creative word does.
This is what makes Calvinism in error.

 

your failure to understand calvinism does not mean it is in error. It means youare without understanding DHK

 

The same can be sincerely said about you Icon.
Really, you do not understand the terrible error that you are drowning in.
Seek the Lord and pray. Perhaps He will give you light. You need to come out of the darkness. Plead with him now.

 

I have challenged any pre-trib-dispensationalist on this BB for 10 years to present one, just one, passage of Scripture that teaches a pre-trib-rapture of the Church. Others have asked the same question. You claim to debate using the Bible then do so. Present that passage of Scripture!

 

You didn't answer my post. You ignored it. Here is a part of it.

Your hatred of dispensationalism prevents you from seeing "the forest for the trees." The larger issue is dispensationalism. Deal with that first.

 

My link proved that dispensationalism, with its pre-trib-rapture of the Church and the "parenthesis" doctrine of the Church, started with John Nelson Darby. It sure doesn't come from Scripture otherwise you and other likeminded pre-trib-dispensationalists would not have ignored the following question!

You are very immature, even childish, in many respects DHK. You soundly attempt to slime Calvinism and the Doctrines of Sovereign Election and Grace in any post you present which deals with them. Whether you agree with those doctrines or not you cannot honestly deny that there is a sound Biblical basis for those doctrines. But you are totally unable to present any Biblical basis for the pre-trib-rapture of the Church and the doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church on which that doctrine hangs. As Dr Thomas Ice writes: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/short-history-of-dispensationalism

 

So Evan! Where are the "Two good arguments for a Pretrib Rapture"? Where is just one passage of Scripture showing a pre-trib-rapture. Now a lot of us are likely going to die before the Lord Jesus Christ returns but that cannot be called a pre-trib-rapture!

 

Your link proves that Dispensationalism started with the Church Fathers, particularly Ireneus--a hard fact for you to admit. Dispensationalism as a whole does come from Scripture and that fact cannot be avoided.

I have told you before, I don't care what Dr. Ice says.
Calvinism in and of itself is an erroneous theology that has led many astray.
Here is a good source for you:
http://bible-truth.org/IsCalvinismBiblical.html

Study the content therein and hopefully your eyes will be opened.
I can't convince you. You won't listen to what I have to say.

 

My link proved that pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensationalism started with John Nelson Darby and you know that is the truth.

You prove my assertion above that you are immature, even childish. I present the truth about the father of pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensationalism as recorded by a pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensational scholar and you reject it as false. Yet you want me to believe the trash talk of a Calvin hater! Get real DHK. Simply admit that there is no Scriptural basis for pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensationalism {PTRRD for short}.

When you present one verse of Scripture to support PTRRD you may have something to say worth reading. The challenge still holds:

 

Perhaps you haven't read your own link. Dispensationalism started with Ireneus. First come to that fact. Your link proves that much. Until you accept that fact we can proceed no further. There are many dispensatonalists that are pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib. I accept that. One must accept dispensationalism first.

Calling me names doesn't do you any good. It doesn't prove your case.
I have presented my case in the Cal/Arm forum.

I'll post again what MacArthur said, although you can read it in the Cal/Arm forum/

Look in the other forum. I have posted other material as well.

 

http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/short-history-of-dispensationalism

Then from:http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandth.pdf

If LeHaye says it it must be true but I wonder; does anyone smell special and additional revelation in the above?

 

You are being childish and avoiding questions that are directly put to you.
What is the purpose of having a debate when you can't answer the questions or even admit to those things posted?

 

I have posted repeatedly links to dispensational scholar Dr. Thomas Ice showing that John Nelson Darby is the father of pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensational doctrine {PTRRDD}. You ignore them and then expect me to believe the haters of the Doctrines of Sovereign Election and Grace. Ridiculous! When you post a single passage of Scripture that proves John Nelson Darby was not delusional when he developed his pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensational doctrine {PTRRDD} then you will have something worthwhile to say. Otherwise, one more time!

I have challenged any pre-trib-dispensationalist on this BB for 10 years to present one, just one, passage of Scripture that teaches a pre-trib-rapture of the Church. Others have asked the same question. You claim to debate using the Bible then do so. Present that passage of Scripture!

 

And I have already answered that. But you have answered very little of my posts.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2187608&postcount=33

 

That would be hilariously comical if it were not so pathetically sad!

 

They cannot and never will to your satisfaction, and here's why:

It's simply because if God himself walked up to you in a 3-piece suit and shook your hand and explained that Pre-Tribulational Rapturism and Dispensationalism were the Biblical truth...

You would still deny it.

Your loathing of Dispensationalism is tatamount to neurosis.

Only poor martyr DHK even bothers to discuss it with you.
The Scripture COULD read something like:

"Before 7 years of judgment upon the sins of the nations and 7 years of trials of Jacob....the ransomed ecclesia of Christ shall be snatched away so that they may not suffer the wrath of God prior to the bowls of wrath poured out upon the nations"....

And you wouldn't consider that even possible evidence of a Pre-Tribulational Rapture.
You'd deny it no matter WHAT verse was offered.
You haven't seen it because you don't WANT TO...(that's a facet of your free-will...but that's another discussion)

Your only delusion is to pretend that there could be ANY passage or verse sufficient to convince you of it. In that suggestion you are deluding yourself.

The difference between DHK and you is this:
If DHK were shown reasonably sufficient texts of Scripture to deny his view...
he actually WOULD abandon it and yield to the testimony of Holy Writ....

God could not personally convince YOU no matter WHAT he said in the Scripture. Your hatred of Dispensationalism has passed the point of neurotic...it's truly psychopathic........it's frightening, deranged....disturbing.....

I can only guess poor DHK bothers to debate you at all for the sake of the seeking and searching who might want to hear BOTH sides of the debate...before your psychopathic rage takes complete control of you......
There is no way he is so stupid as to think that you are even CLOSE to rational on this one.

Pre-trib Rapturism may be wrong...I dunno....
But God himself couldn't convince you of it if he tried.

You've made your choice....
That's why no one can show you the text you demand.

 

You wanted Scripture. Over a dozen scriptures were posted in just one post.
You gave one answer and quoted one passage of Scripture.
Here was your answer.

Pitiful!

 

You have a very small mind!

Because it does not exist!

 

There has not been one passage of Scripture posted that clearly shows a pre-trib-rapture of the Church. Everything presented has been subject to the eisegesis of pre-tribbers!

I present Scripture showing clearly a general resurrection and judgment and you pre-tribbers simply ignore it. Rather than take the words of Jesus Christ you take the pipe dreams of Darby!

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.