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two witnesses

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by C.S. Murphy, May 9, 2003.

  1. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    I think so. I will keep my eyes open maybe I am wrong about you.
    Murph
     
  2. Matthew 16:24

    Matthew 16:24 New Member

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    Nope, I think you are right. ME2 has some pretty wild beliefs/views on the Bible (no disrespect). Just do a search on some of his posts. I am surprised he still attends Baptist churches, because a lot of his opinions do not line up with the simplest beliefs. Definitely not fundamental beliefs.

    Sheeagle,
    Can you provide us with a few examples where scripture has two different meanings? I am curious on what exactly are you referring to.

    Who I believe the two witnesses will be is on page 1. I think we can get farther if we use scripture along with our posts to back our answers on this subject.

    Can you expand on this please? I am a little confused on exactly what you mean by this, thanks.
     
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Be glad to, Matthew.


    First - re: the 2 witnesses. I, too, believe they are Elijah & Moses. My comment that started this current tirade/deviation from the thread topic was directed to the fact that someone had previously posted about "Law & Prophets", so my post should have been more articulate. Moses & Elijah being the two witnesses could also be symbolic of the Law & the Prophets. That is what I meant.

    Please note: No where have I ever alluded to not accepting the literal interpretation of the Scripture, because I do. If it says 2 prophets, then I believe it is 2 literal flesh & blood people.

    Perhaps I am not as articulate as some on this Board would prefer. Or perhaps more is read into my posts than what is meant by this Author.


    Examples of where Scriptures has two different meanings:

    John 21:[15] So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
    [16] He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
    [17] He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    If one studies the original Greek of these verses, the meaning is deeper than what it appears on the surface, with the words "sheep" and "love / lovest."

    ------------

    Eye of the needle & camel - For years I thought about a sewing type needle & animal camel in my mind's eye when reading these verses. Which literally would mean that to the average non-scholar, non-Bible student.

    Matt.19
    [24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Mark.10
    [25] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
    Luke.18

    [25] For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    But the second meaning is this:

    Many ancient cities had a "needle's eye gate" which was a small, low door beside the main gate. Such a feature existed on at least one of the gates of Jerusalem and Damascus (Weiss, Insight into Bible Times and Customs, pp. 24-25).

    A man could fit easily through the "needle's eye gate", but a camel, being a large animal, could not fit easily. If the camel's pack (which could weight up to 1,000 pounds) were removed and the camel were made to kneel, the camel could just barely crawl through the "needle's eye gate."

    There are web sites that say this is an error, or a rumor, about this needle's eye, but someone I know stood in the "eye of the needle gate" when they were on a trip to the Holy Land & had their picture taken there! Guess they didn't read those web sites.

    ---------------------

    Lastly - "Types of Christ" - Torrey's Topical Textbook lists many Types of Christ throughout scripture. Here are only a few:

    One of my favorites is the Brazen Serpent that was lifted up in the wilderness. The Brazen Serpent was a literal object and the events were literal events.

    The second (deeper) meaning was that the Brazen Serpent was also a "picture" of Jesus Christ on the Cross, or a type of Christ.


    Adam
    Romans 5:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45

    Abel
    Genesis 4:8,10; Hebrews 12:24

    Abraham
    Genesis 17:5; Ephesians 3:15

    Aaron
    Exodus 28:1; Hebrews 5:4,5; Leviticus 16:15; Hebrews 9:7,24

    Ark
    Genesis 7:16; 1 Peter 3:20,21

    Ark of the Covenant
    Exodus 25:16; Psalms 40:8; Isaiah 42:6

    Atonement, sacrifices offered on the day of
    Leviticus 16:15,16; Hebrews 9:12,24

    Brazen serpent
    Numbers 21:9; John 3:14,15

    http://www.studylight.org/con/ttt/view.cgi?number=T586

    ----------

    Hope this clarifies what I meant & thank you for asking me in a non-threatening, non-accusatory manner to respond. You are a blessing. [​IMG]

    And in case anyone has not guessed, I'm not angry. But I am thinking of changing my screen name to LiberalEagle9/11. [​IMG]

    PS: Murph, sorry about the hijacking of your thread. Now, it's past my [​IMG] time.
     
  4. Matthew 16:24

    Matthew 16:24 New Member

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    Agreed, now I see where you are coming from. I believe the same thing about the serpent.

    LOL, I guess I am an average non-Bible scholar, I did not know about the true meaning, thanks.
    In my defence, I am still studying [​IMG]

    However wouldn't you agree that this text only has on true meaning and the other meaning just wrong?
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Just a note - even though this is a FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST forum, it is not exclusive to us. We allow people with much more liberal views and who would not even call themselves "fundamentalist" to share and visit. [​IMG]

    I personally do not like this. I wish that ONLY fundamentalists were allowed here. But it will never happen.

    Why? Because we have all sorts of "fundamentalists" even by self-declaration. I am one. You are one. Daniel is one. But we have shown we do not speak with a unified voice. :rolleyes: On ANY subject! :eek:
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    After reading all of those, I stand by my original statements. None of those passages have two CORRECT meanings.
     
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    So much for "soul liberty." :rolleyes:
     
  8. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    You have got to be kidding me. Of course you have the freedom to believe whatever you want. That doesn't mean you are correct. Tell me, why are you using the exact same reasoning the liberals use? They cry soul liberty as though they are being beat down.

    You don't grant those who embrace homo behavior and abortion the same freedom you are demanding. You without apology declare they are wrong (and they are). At least be consistent.

    Btw Murph, you didn't answer my question. I don't expect Bob will.
     
  9. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
    (Prov. 6:16-19).


    Let's see...I had a wonderful time at my IFB church services today, was wonderfully blessed by the sermon from my old sheep KJV IFB conservative pastor, a Godly, humble man, called of God, (who defended the right of Israel to exist & is not in favor of the Road Map, BTW), fellowshipped among other like minded believers, singing praises to the Glory of God, narry a sour remark, disposition, disagreement, nor disparaging word from anyone all day (even in Sunday School during the Q&A portion).....

    and then, like an old fool, came here to the Baptist Board to this particular forum & thread, where discord, rather than edification, seems to exist...the word "legalist" does spring to mind, however....

    enough said. [​IMG]

    (sigh)

    [ June 08, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: SheEagle9/11 ]
     
  10. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    I don't remember the question DD ask again and I will attempt to answer. Let me caution you by saying that I don't appreciate your tone and I especially don't approve of what I consider to be
    your baiting of Pastor Bob. As I have noted on numerous occasions it is normally all or nothing with you. Look at this example:

    One of my favorites is the Brazen Serpent that was lifted up in the wilderness. The Brazen Serpent was a literal object and the events were literal events.

    The second (deeper) meaning was that the Brazen Serpent was also a "picture" of Jesus Christ on the Cross, or a type of Christ.

    Now DD how can you not agree that the account of the brazen serpent does not have a dual meaning. One for those in that day and another for us today.

    Murph
     
  11. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Thanks Bob but allow me to clarify that since it's inception this forum has used a conservative standard for posting. We allow people with liberal views to visit yes and even to share as long as they honor the forums guidelines but this is not a free for all.
    Murph
     
  12. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    As this thread has long since left it's intended purpose (including my own recent posts) I feel it best to close it down. If anyone would like to continue this discussion please start a new thread.
    Murph
     
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