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"Under God" and "In God We Trust"

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Sep 18, 2005.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    The Pledge debate has stirred some thoughts in my mind.

    Should the State mandate a declaration of faith in a pledge or in its coinage?
    What was it only the 20th century that the Pledge added "under God" and "In God We Trust" added to our coinage?

    Historical note: Although "In God We Trust" appeared as early as 1864 it did not become permanent until 1938

    Why is it only in the last 100 years or so that anyone saw the need for these things? Since we survived and thrived 100 years or so without them, are they really that important? It was 178 years from the Declaration of Independence till "Under God" was added to a pledge, which in itself was only 62 years old at the time.

    "Under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954 and "In God We Trust" did not become our national motto until 1956. Surely there is no clear historical argument for their continuation since they were not a part of our foundation?

    Thoughts appreciated. Rotten tomatoes not appreciated ;) .

    [ September 18, 2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    That thread is about to be closed. Here is a quote from it
    From Article 7 of the constitution:

     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    (Here comes a rotten tomato) [​IMG]

    It seems to me that people are removing all traces or mention of God from everyplace possible.

    Why would Christians want this to happen?
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    What did the framers mean by "religious test?"
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    But these two were not official until 1954/56. Did we not do well before they were added?
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    They made it clear - NO religious test.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    But these two were not official until 1954/56. Did we not do well before they were added? </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe so, but their being made official is not unconstitutional. That's my point.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    This thread is not about the constitutionality, but whether or not they should exist. Please refer to the OP.
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Yes! They should exist!
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    They made it clear - NO religious test. </font>[/QUOTE]An acknowledgement of a Supreme Being is not a religious test. when the Constitution was ratified 11 of the 13 states required an acknowledgement of God, and many states do today, of their officials.

    It simply means that no one has to be a member of a particular religious sect as was required in England.
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    Of course they should. The nations are to be taught to observe all things that Christ has commanded.
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    My point is I don't see why.

    Before they were added we won every war we fought. We survived a Civil War, families were strong, and God was honoured in the hearts and minds of most people.

    Since they added:
    The Playboy generation was born
    Drug abuse has reached epidemic proportions
    Infanticide has been legalised
    The institution of marriage has all but collapsed
    Homosexuality has societal acceptance
    We have lost our only war

    Perhaps we have moved from acknowledging God with our hearts to acknowledging Him with our lips?

    Paying God lip service is not enough. God speak strongly against nations that only acknowledge Him on the surface and not with their hearts and actions.

    Do we really deserve to make the claim of "under God" and "In God We Trust" when we consider the depths to which we have fallen?
     
  14. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    If we, as a nation, have fallen to such depths with "under God" and "In God We Trust"; what depths will we sink to if they are removed?

    Did sex education start in public schools before or after prayer was 'officially' removed from those institutions?

    You're not really blaming all this...

    ...on the fact that we honor God in the pledge and on our money are you??? :confused:
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Nope, but perhaps on God's attitude in Amos and other places where nations profess God with their lips and not with their hearts.

    Adding those two phrases in 1954 and 1956 certainly has not done much to keep us on the right track. Do you really thinking keeping them is somehow going to get us back on track?
     
  16. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    I do not support shallow government references to our God, whether on money or in a pledge.
     
  17. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    We also must remember that this nation is not made up of only believers. Others are just as American as we are. Besides, mixing God and mammon is a bad idea, as is mixing religion and government. Let God live in the hearts of believers, not as part of state deism.
     
  18. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Your post fits my sentiments to a T.
     
  19. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member

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    I remember when Ike added "under God" because it changed the pledge that we used in school. The motto when unnoticed by me except for the sign at a store at a lake that added "all others cash."

    But I would not say that Viet Nam was the first war that we lost. Some say we lost the War of 1812, but I think that we made a big mistake in Korea by compromising and I would consider Korea a loss, especially in view of the fact that so many want to cut and run in Iraq the way we did in Korea and Viet Nam. That would be our third loss in the orient in my book.

    I don't care what happens to those 2 things but I would prefer that they remain.

    It is interesting that they came from the 1950s officially. I like Ike and I think that the 1950s were the golden age of America; we had peace, prosperity, and domestic tranquility. Ike said that it was American GI, the American soldier, who was responsible for the Victory in World War II.

    We really have had no increase in the standard of living since the 1950s and domestic tranquility seems to have disappeared forever....
     
  20. SeekingTruth

    SeekingTruth Member

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    Leaving these phrases as they are, will have no impact on God's judgement on this nation. He will judge us by the condition of our hearts. It is not the presence of "under God" that caused the moral decay in this nation. While we as Christians did not cause the decay we did not do enough to slow or stop it.

    How often did believers and our churches give a wink and a nod as "minor" things happened, such as repeal of the Sunday closing laws? No big deal we thought, we can't legislate morality. Let God deal with it. What did we do as liquor by the drink and gambling casinos began to flourish and spread? Well, many of us thought, I used to have a drink of liquor, still do on occaision, and it didn't hurt me; or what is wrong with buying a lotto ticket or betting on a horse race? It is my money and we can't legislate morality.

    Just look at how the slide has gained impetus as "mainstream" denominations have lowered the standards for ministers. Homosexuality is pushed as an acceptable way of life. Abortion on demand is accepted by many "mainstream" denominations. People like Barry Lynn and his organization are given recognition as speaking for a large percentage of Christians. Now we wonder if adding a simple phrase "under God" to the pledge of Allegiance may in some manner be related to our present condition. I don't think so.
     
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