Under Grace or Under Law Part 4

In 1Cor 3 the case is never made for "evil" or "bad" doctrine. Rather the case is made for inferior - weaker - doctrine.

Imagine if you will Apollos and Paul in sequence coming to the same town and evangelizing. Some argue that Paul's doctrinal arguments are strongest - best etc others argue that Apollos has the best positions, the best perspectives the BEST teachings.

Paul points out that this does not cause the loss of salvation EVEN if someone like you or I were to come through town evangelizing and the listener were to say that the Apostle Paul "is a much better evangelist" -- it does not mean we have "done evil".

The notion that not being equal to Paul in evangelistic presentations - should be equated to "evil deeds" -- open rebellion etc -- is never mentioned in 1Cor 3.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Hence the problem OSAS has with John 15 and those who are being cast out - REMOVED from the Vine of Christ

 

Excellent question.

His Spirit beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. The best scripture on knowledge that I know of.

 

Faith is confidence. It is not some nebulous feeling or undefinable intangible abstract. It is confidence in the word of another. Biblical faith is confidence in the Word of God. We exercise faith every day. If the school (administration) tells me that they will be letting my children out at 3:30 pm I have faith in their word (confidence) that my child will be free from classes at 3:30. If I use the city transit system and ask the bus driver if this bus goes downtown, and he answers yes, I have faith (confidence) that he is telling the truth and I will not end up at the airport. I have faith (confidence) in the words of Ford (the company and their manual) that when I put my key into the ignition and turn it that my car will start. 99% of the time it does. When it doesn't, it doesn't start because of a lack of my faith, but rather because the car was made by human hands and humans are not infallible. They make mistakes, and the things that they make are not perfect.

However I can put my faith in a perfect God, who in His perfect Word never makes mistakes. I can have full assurance, full confidence that whatever he has promised He will do.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Romans 4:20-21 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Abraham was a man of faith. He was confident. He was fully persuaded that whatever God had promised God was going to do. He left no room in his life for uncertainties.

 

Heavenly Pilgrim,

I quoted this passage...

And I commented...

And you now ask,

When it says that we have passed from death unto life, it is obviously not speaking of premature phyiscal death. It refers to our new birth, and the tranformation that takes place. We once were lost, now we are saved. We once were dead, now we have life. We once were hell bound, now we are heaven bound. We once were Satans posession, now we are Saints of the living God.

And one of the immediate changes that takes place is that we want to be with other born again people, and we love them as brothers and sisters. That is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Lost people on the other hand do not love the things of God, His teachings, His ways or His priorities. They want no part of His church or His way of living or His born again people. Sometimes they hate and persecute His people. People who hate christians are not born again. So if born again people fall into bickering and contentiousness and bitterness, etc, they are taking on characteristics that are normal for the lost, but completly out of place for the saved.

All of the people he is adressing are born again believers, so it goes without saying that they are still saved. There is no such thing and anyone spending their life bouncing back and forth betwen lost and saved. Saved today, lost tomorrow, saved today, lost tormorrow, etc. We are eternally lost until we come to Christ, and then we are eternally saved.

Thos abiding in death are are unregenerate. The lost are not saved.. But the hope of being born again is still there. As long as their is the smallest degree of conviction there is still the opportunity to be born of the Spirit, if they will embrace Christ through faith alone.

God bless,

Mike

 

Yes to the first half, and as to what is faith, if not the "the having faith part", necessarily, anyway.

As to the second part, as to Biblical truth, while it appears to be offered as theoretically possible when one is "filled with the Spirit", no one is coninually in this state, else there would be no command to "keep on being filled with the Spirit", were 'filled' an automatic state. So the answer to the second part is highly unlikely, according to the sum total of the teachings of Scripture.



Ed

 

My last post should have read "...continually in this state...', not "...coninually...".
Unfortunately Language Cop was still asleep, and did not proof-read it.

Ed

 

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

HP: Absolutely, but faith cannot exist in the absence of all uncertainties.

 

HP: Do you think that there is a chance that the word ‘justification’ could be used in more than one sense? In other words, could it be possible that in a sense we are justified by our works, and in another sense we are not justified by works? Could the word justification be used in one sense to indicate the grounds for our salvation, yet used in another sense as a judgment of God upon our intents and subsequent actions? Could the possibility exist that there are even three senses in which justification can be used? I have been justified, I am being justified, and I will yet be justified at the final judgment of God.

 

HP: An excellent post Claudia. Very well laid out.

 

I believe what you are speaking of is sanctification, not justification.

 

HP: We all know that in a sense man is not justified by works. Nothing man can do in any way can be seen in the sense of ‘that for the sake of’ concerning salvation. Just the same, James tells us that indeed man is NOT justified by faith alone but by works as well. Jas 2:21 “Was not Abraham our father justified by works,”

Try harmonizing the two senses. I believe the works spoken of in James should be thought of in the sense of ‘not without which’ just the same as all conditions set forth by God for man to comply with.

Sanctification is not by works either, but neither will it be accomplished without the intents of man being chosen in accordance to God’s commandments. You can no more grow into sanctification that you can grow into salvation. At some point you must invoke faith and believe God to do the work.

 

Sanctification is an actual process that takes place in the believer after the person is initially sanctified or set apart at salvation.
However as it says in Romans 5:1

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

We are justified by faith. It is not a process but a one time act.
What James is speaking of is the outcome of our justification or salvation. If we are truly justified then it will be followed by works

He said:
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
--Works are a result of justification.

 

HP: It would be proper to say that we still have a few disagreements between us.

 

Yes and no.

James does not say "the outcome of being justified by faith APART FROM WORKS is that Justification is FOLLOWED by WORKS"...

Though it would have been simpler if he HAD said such a thing.

James said "you seen then that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS AND NOT by faith ALONE".

In that clear statement - there is no ability to spin or turn it to "You seen then that a man IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE and after that you will just so happen to see some good works".

Such a bending of the text is not even possible.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Now this is actually pretty interesting because I agree with DHK's belief that we ARE justified by faith alone - and that good works do follow as a RESULT.

I also agree that sanctification is a process that begins with Justification by faith alone - at the point of the new birth - the conversion of the soul - the new creation.

But in my model you can not simply twist the text that does not please your doctrine to make it fit.

In that point we differ -hence all of our other differences.

In Christ,

Bob