Under Grace or Under Law?...Round 3

We can keep the law if we truly are submitted to Christ.

The Word says that His commandments are not grievous. To the one who will truly serve Him, they are not.

 

We must also remember that Jesus told Peter:

What did He mean about 'when thou are converted'? Were the disciples saved before the cross? or after it?
We do know that Judas was one of the Apostles, yet the son of Perdition. Were the others also in an unsaved state before the shedding of blood?

 

Paul words it just like this:

Romans 13:
8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


and theres no reason to tell us to keep the Law if we cant do it:


Mt:5:19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Rom:6:2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Claudia

 

HP: I totally agree. I was just using your post to provoke some of the others to think about and utilize sound words such as you have posted here.

 

okay, I can see the point maybe about Peter not being converted, and Im not sure if that means he wasnt "saved" but I dont think the fact that Jesus hadnt gone to the cross yet has a thing to do with any of that.

The sacrificing of the sheep was to show faith in the dying on the cross that was to come so to reason that perhaps if Peter wasnt converted this means nobody else was either... that is just wrong, in my opinion.

Plus "converted" in this passage could mean that he just didnt realize who Jesus really was.

Not completely.


sorry I gotta change that, I just read through and Jesus said that to Peter right when He said he was going to betray him...

Claudia

 

Acts:3:19: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

well that does seem to say if you arent "converted" you arent "saved"

 

...that provoking Heavenly Pilgrim... I tell ya!

 

HP: Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

 

When Jesus spoke of the Commandments He always spoke of the Ten and even spoke them. Never did He say anything about the above 600 pots and pans laws, to us.

 

so what is your problem?

You amen it!!!

You were under it before Christ set you free when you believed and put them in your heart and mind that the righteous of the Law would be fulfilled in you and the only way the righteous of the Law can be fulfilled is to Keep them.

HBSMN; I agree with your posts also.

 

Ed answered, still waiting on the others.

 

HP: On what authority do they do that? Are Churches bound to the law? Is not the church made of of nothing apart from individuals that are not under law but grace?

For mere man to suggest that something might need to be done about sin that has already been forgiven by the blood of Christ even before it was committed........is that not trampling on the blood of Christ, acting as if though it is of no effect...........at least according to some on this list.

 

Quote:
D28Guy: It is completly appropriate for a fellowship to step in with the appropriate discipline. I dont think any of us would argue with that.

HP: On what authority do they do that? Are Churches bound to the law? Is not the church made of of nothing apart from individuals that are not under law but grace?

I think it has plenty to do with the topic of this thread. WHY would the church discipline someone for breaking the ten commandments if we are no longer Under the Law?

 

If the sin is under the blood according as you all have said and that means all sin and been made white as snow and cast into

a lake never to be remember against him anymore by the one he sinned against. According to your words and theory.

Then what gives you the right to do anything to this man according to your theory has already had his sin covered by Jesus's

blood. What gives you the right to judge another man's servant if he is already "forgiven".

What are you condemning him for?

 

That still does not answer what this man has done to deserve punishment from the church if all he did is covered by the blood of Christ.

You boxed yourself in a hole my friend.

 

Why Brother Bob! I am surprised at you!

Didn't you know, my Brother that the Church has every right to place themselves above Christ and condemn one who sins? one whose sins have been cast into the sea? one whose sins and iniquities are remembered anymore by Christ?

The Church has that authority because it says so. Surely you have read it in your Bible.

(DISCLAIMER: I do not hold to, nor do I endorse the beliefs of any church that would dare condemn anyone whose sins are truly blotted out.)