Understanding Revelation

Another contradiction in itself:

"the "FIRST RESURRECTION" of Rev 20:4-5.

The event that takes place at the 2nd coming described in Rev 19 in detail."

The event that takes place in Rv20:4-5 - and 1-6 for that matter - is what takes place therein, and not what takes place in Revelation 19 - or some part of it obviously - which you do not specify in fear of being exposed the fraud you are.

 

"Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them in the air to MEET the Lord" 1Thess 4

Quite simply - when Jesus returns - He takes the saints to heaven."

GE
Quite simply, another far too self-confident arrogance.
"Then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them" -- who are 'them'? The dead saints having been raised. All the saved are 'seiced together' in clouds upon the face of the earth - clouds apparently from the dust of the graves opened by the heat of His appearance an arid situation. And it is the Lord who while "in the air" is being met by the saints all together and at once. It is the Lord who descends from heaven upon the earth, no the saints who rise up in the air to Him. Quite simply - when Jesus returns - He come to stay with the saved. He shall 'tabernacle' with them and be their temple and sun, and will sit on His throne in the New Jerusalem - literally, upon a literal New Earth. And thus we shall always be where the Lord for always will be.

 

Let's say they WEREN'T 7 periods of church history but DID describe 7 types of churches (good points and bad points). Do you think you could distinguish those and avoid the wrong ones? Do you think seeing good and bad points in the combinations give would reveal to you certain denominations? Or do you think it is all about 7 churches at the time of John's writing and all arcane to us?

skypair

 

May I pose a question which to me is an interesting one - I won't know about you --

Just suppose the 7 churches or 7 letters symbolise the Church General through 7 phases from the institution of the Church until some time before the Advent. The what happens with this 'last Church', Laodecea? God spews it out, we are last informed. The Letter ends with an admonition to repent and reform; but it is left open that it ever did. So in the very end of time, don't we have a Church left?

I am inclined to think that way! I want to understand Jesus' Promise as a Prophecy: "Where two or three gather in my Name, there I am / will be." The Chrurch of the last days before the coming of Christ no longer will exist in the nominal or accepted Church denominations or organisations whatsoever: God will have spewed them out!

From there it's easy to take 'Babilon' for the Church General, which "is Fallen, is Fallen!" And the Word comes: "Get thee out of it!" Not a flattering view.

 

Yes, 7 types of churches that can fit any time and locale in church history. I agree with this.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in taking that "doom and gloom" approach to an understanding of Revelation.

I was of that approach once, but once you are able to identify certain key elements within the Apocalypse, an understanding of the book is quite possible.

 

Five 'and's that seperate
the rapture2 from the resurrection2

(both the rapture2 and the resurreciton2 are part of
what Revelation 20:5 calls THE FIRST RESURRECTION.)


5. Revelation 20:4

Rev 20:4-5 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I saw thrones,
and they sate vpon them,
and iudgement was giuen vnto them:
&
I saw the soules of them that were beheaded
for the witnesse of Iesus,
and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither* his image,
neither* had receiued his marke vpon their foreheads,
or* in their hands;
and they liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.
5 But the rest of the dead liued not
againe vntill the thousand yeeres were finished.
This is the first resurrection.

(did anybody bother to read my discussion in
#1 about the ten 'and*'s in Rev 20:4?

*note, 'neither' is a joiner meaning 'and not'
*note, 'or' is translated from the same root word as all the 'and's

All ten of these joiners relate or disrelate in different ways
and different phrases (the OR related two places
where the mark might be received (1) forehead
or (2) hand - two different sets of body parts
(not two different names of sets of body parts).

You can quote me as saying:

"I, Ed Edwards, believe that the '&' in Revelation 20:4-5
relates different groups of people who were
resurrected1/raptured1 at different times."

The ones on the thrones were in rapture2.
The ones beheaded were in resurrection2.
----------------------------------------------------

resuurection1 is when Jesus raises groups of dead saints to life & gives

them a new body

rapture1 is like a resurrection1 only with living saints

rapture2 is a resurrection1 followed by a rapture1
before the tribulation period

resurrection 2 is a resurrection1 followed by a rapture1
before the tribulation period

 

Wrong.

In Rev 19 we have the 2nd coming.

John "added no chapter markers in the text"

Rev 20 is simply the conclusion of the Rev 19 scenario of the 2nd coming.

Obviously.

in Christ,

Bob

 

BR:
"Rev 20 is simply the conclusion of the Rev 19 scenario of the 2nd coming."

GE
Goes the song, I feel like crying! Please, "...the Rev 19 scenario of the 2nd coming"? The Rev 19 scenario of the coming of Christ ONCE FOR ALL!​

 

and please note in 19 from verse 1 to verse 16 how the Gospel era is described, the very parallel of "Thousand years this the First Resurrection" 20:1-5/6 (quoted literally)!

 

GE
I reply by quoting you, fully, because no better argument to the demolishment of your view can be offered than itself -- it's so muddled.

 

God is "just and true"
Christ is "Lord and Savior"


Artificially inserting gaps into scripture whenever you find an "and" does not work.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Insightful and to the point -- "as usual".

in Christ,

Bob

​

 

The 144,000 are alive at the end of time as we see in Rev 7 and in Rev 14.

They are by definition "Christians" -- i.e. followers of God.

As 1Cor 10:1-5 points out EVEN the OT saints are regarded as having drunk from the SAME spiritual rock -- that is CHRIST!

in Christ,

Bob

 

GE
It's not the type of challenge I like to put forward, but you force me to: Present ONE 'scrap' (as someone has said) of Scripture with these words: "Second resurrection". And I confidently shall extend it to, Present ONE 'scrap' of Scripture of the idea of a 'Second resurrection'.

BobRyan, I cannot remember how often I have invited you to give account of YOUR parsing of 1Thes4:16-17. It is grade 7 stuff. Please may we see yours?