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Understanding the Lord's Prayer

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, May 21, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Recently in another forum a discussion was attempted concerning the Lord's Prayer. The discussion deteriorated and thus the thread was closed. One side believed that reciting the Lord's Prayer multiple times was consistent with God's intended usage. The other side (including me) thought the Lord's prayer was provided as an example of how we are to pray.

    Here is an interpretive translation which emphasizes our desired actions:

    Pray like this:


    Pray to the Father
    and recognize His authority.
    Ask for an understanding of His will,
    and the willingness to follow.
    Ask only for what you need,
    and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.
    Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,
    and ask for forgiveness for your sins.
    Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
    for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.
    (Matt. 6:9-15)
     
    #1 Van, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Who is the Father? Well He is the Father of us, or our Father. Is He our earthly father? Nope. He is in Heaven. So He is God Almighty, whose majesty and steadfast love for His children is beyond question. He is sovereign and can supply whatever He wills to supply. And when we pray to Him, we are to be mindful of our siblings in Christ, because we do not address Him as "my" Father (which He is) but as "our Father" which unites our prayer with our siblings, and especially with the foremost and one of a kind Son of God, Jesus our Lord and our Savior.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven

    Some see this as a desire to the Second Coming. But coupled with a desire for God's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven, the idea is the kingdom of God within us, where God rules as opposed to where we fall short. In heaven the angelic creatures, and the souls of the people made perfect earnestly seek to carry out God's will rather than their own. We miss the mark in two ways, one sometimes we do not strive to do God's will, and two, we strive to do what we mistakenly think is God's will. Therefore,
    Ask for an understanding of His will,
    and the willingness to follow.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    ‘Give us this day our daily bread."

    Daily bread points to what we (siblings in Christ) need to carry out our duties as ambassadors of Christ. Spiritual food, milk and meat, as we need. Our daily allotment points away from asking for things we do not need, like being anxious for physical comfort, or a white Cadillac.

    Ask only for what you need,
    and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 6:12
    ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

    Here we have what I believe to be a widely misunderstood verse. Some think this teaches a Quid Pro Quo, that when we forgive others we merit our forgiveness. Total hogwash.

    In the parallel verse (Luke 11:4) rather than "debts" we have "sins." Splitting the difference, we have reference to where we miss the mark God has set for us, and where we think others have missed the mark as to how others should treat us.

    Some commentaries indicate "forgive us" would better be rendered "has forgiven" because the Greek word is in the Aorist tense, indicated a completed action. However, the best translations for presenting the grammar accurately render the word as forgive. Other commentaries point out this instruction was given before Christ's substitutionary sacrifice on the cross, so it is unclear whether Christ was looking forward to the illustration being used afterword.

    But, as we return to the concept of prayer within and for our community of believers, the goals of tolerance and cohesion come to mind. We ask (or entreat) our Father to forgive where we miss His mark for our service, as we also forgive our siblings in Christ for their shortcoming (in our opinion) in how they have treated us.

    Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,
    and ask for forgiveness for your sins.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 6:13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

    A common way of looking at truth is to consider the opposite to be false. But from another perspective, the opposite of truth is evil. The result for example of believing a falsehood, such as "another gospel" is truly evil. Or not trusting in a valid remedy for disease but rather in "tonic water."
    Proverbs 30:8 puts it this way, "Keep deception and lies far from me, Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion." And of course," the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation," (2 Peter 2:9).

    Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
    for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    One thing I do not think is well understood, the Lord's teaching on prayer was in regards to being uder the Law, Luke 11:4, ". . . And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive . . . " Compare Matthew 6:12.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One of the hallmarks of Christian behavior is integrity. Numerous examples are given in scripture where a person is found to treat others differently than he or she wants to be treated. The guy who asked for forgiveness, but was unwilling to forgive.
    This judgement is not based on the Law because Paul applies it to those without the Law. Romans 2
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pray like this:

    Pray to our Father
    and recognize His sovereignty.
    Ask for an understanding of His will,
    and the willingness to follow.
    Ask only for what you need,
    and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.
    Forgive anyone for their apparent lapses toward you,
    and ask for forgiveness for your sins.
    Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
    for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.
    (Matt. 6:9-15)​

     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sovereignty refers to the fact God either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. He predestines future events, but does not predestine all future events. He allows humans to make choices within the purview He allows. Thus we can choose to sin or fully trust in Jesus, but not choose to fly by flapping our arms. "The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps."
     
    #10 Van, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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