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Featured Understanding the NT re: eternal security

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Apr 4, 2021.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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  2. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    This has been a fun favorite of mine for a few years ...
    Hebrews 10 (NKJV):
    38 Now the just shall live by faith;
    But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
    39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
    but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

    A trinity of News Flashes
    --- Grace is like all other gifts; it can be taken back.
    --- God has always accomplished His purposes with
    the co-operation of man (creation notwithstanding).
    --- The new covenant is like all other covenants ...
    both parties must co-operate, abide by the rules, etc.

    The new covenant is NOT about saying,
    "I'm born-again and I'm going to heaven!",
    and then living in some habitual sin(s).
    Here are some NT "sin lists" which warn that ...
    habitual sinners cannot be part of the kingdom of God
    (1 Corin. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-5, Revel. 21:7-8).





     
    #22 Samuels, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If we are saved by having faith that God has saved us, we cannot be saved if we think the possibility of losing salvation exists.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It says "we are not of those who draw back to predition, . . ." How did those who drew back to have lived by faith to have been saved? Honestly I do not see there saved persons having salvation taken from them. But drawing back from having the faith in order to obtain salvation. Do you have a better reference?
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    So the saved can continue in a life of sin and still get to heaven :eek:
     
  6. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Why don't we look at specifics instead of generalities?

    If a non-believer is a habitual (unrepentant) adulterer he/she goes to hell.
    If a BAC is a habitual (unrepentant) adulterer he/she goes to heaven.
    Isn't the grace of God wonderful?

    Not on My watch, the Lord says!
     
  7. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Hebrews 10 (NKJV):
    38 Now the just shall live by faith;
    But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
    39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
    but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

    I suppose you see that this is talking about
    believers who are classified as being "just".

    Some of them "live by faith" (and all of what this entails),
    and it would be nice to understand what the NT word "believe" really means!

    Some of them do not, but choose to "fall back" from the faith.
    These unfaithful ones go to you know where.

    BTW, Ephesians was written to "the faithful" believers (1:1), and so was Colossians (1:2).
    Paul was NOT writing to the unfaithful believers in those churches.
     
    #27 Samuels, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Again I understand those who drew back drew back from choosing to believe. Which those who believe did not. What evidence do you have those who drew back had believed to the saving of their souls?
     
  9. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    The reconciliation of the two groups of verses is simply dispensational:
    • Eternal Security is truth during the church age.
    • Eternal Security is heresy during the tribulation and the millennial kingdom.
    Both doctrines are Biblical, hence the controversy.
    It's just a question of dispensational context.
    2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
     
  10. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Rom_11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [on God's part, i.e. he won't change his mind about them].

    In the tribulation and the millennial kingdom, salvation will no more be a free gift, thus loss of salvation will once again be a possibility, as it was under the law.
     
    #30 George Antonios, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The word is the same word. It is the how and what one believes. Matthew 7:21, Luke 8:13, 2 Corinthians 4:3, etc.
     
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Every Christian believes what the Bible "clearly teaches" ... they just disagree on what is clearly taught.

    Romans 14:5-13 [NKJV]

    One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written:

    “As I live, says the LORD,

    Every knee shall bow to Me,

    And every tongue shall confess to God.”

    So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Christians still are able to sin and in fact sin every day in thought word or deed. They are no longer under sins reigning power, and do not habitually commit sin, but we do sin, and yes, we will still go to heaven.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    George, where do you think you see this?
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    But we need to repent daily as 1 John 1:8-10 tells us
     
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    ... you are discussing a "married bachelor" (something which is a logical self-contradiction and cannot exist). You are asking:
    • 'what if someone has had their heart and mind transformed by God and hasn't had their heart and mind transformed by God, will they still go to heaven along with those that have had their heart and mind transformed by God?'
    The question is nonsensical.
     
  17. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    It said nothing about "daily".
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    May not be as you think. Salvation can only be received by the mercy of God.
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Check Job chapter 1
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    New King James Version Job 1:5 So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did regularly.
     
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