1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Understanding the NT re: eternal security

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Apr 4, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Saving faith demands continuing belief, faith, trust, and obedience!
    Haven't you heard that fear of God is the beginning wisdom?
    This refers to a healthy fear of God's wrath
    (which can be poured out upon believers)
    and also a healthy reverence of God.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,721
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And that is requered in order to be given that gift.
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    3,944
    Likes Received:
    765
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think Donall and Conall's response to the Mormons is appropriate for this thread...

    Enjoy...
     
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    291

    Then I guess God is controlled by what men do.
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    933
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unlikely.
    "Omniscience" makes it hard to catch God by surprise, so like Joseph's brothers, God just builds human disobedience into His plan (without the sin of selling Joseph, we would have no Passover and no Last Supper/Passover lamb of God).
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,806
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God never gets caught with" did not see that coming" moment!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    291
    Your making God out to be weaker as if dependent on disobedience, rather than victory in spite of disobedience.


    Jeremiah 7

    31They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My [m]mind.

    It didn't even cross his mind that they would do such things.

    IT was asked.
    Does the human will subject God's will under it's supreme authority?
    I asked if God gets angry at sinner's sin? Answer given was :YES
    Ergo plainly God is controlled by what Men do.

    The issue here is with some present Calvinists are going to have to reinvent the wheel.

    Its called anthropomorphisms. God doesn't hate, Doesn't get Angry. Immutable, Impassible. <-- Even JOHN CALVIN wrote about this stuff.

    My opinion is you guys have poorly thought out ideas about what is power, what is control, Desire/Wants, and sovereignty.

    Its like applying what a secular man would do if he were God, from a perspective of what a secular man would consider absolute power.

    Is God TRAPPED where it is impossible to have a WANT and DESIRE to occur without a Direct force "CONTROL"?

    Can I desire or want a birthday cake that was given to me without me FORCING CONTROL for it?
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,806
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God is not saying that what they did he failed to notice, but that it was not commanded by Him to be done!
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    933
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Genesis 50:20 [NKJV]
    20 "But as for you, you meant evil against me; [but] God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as [it is] this day, to save many people alive.

    It says what it says.
    I am guilty of believing the word of God.
    Why do you deny what it says?
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    291
    Its like someone who meant to hit you with their car and run over a bear chasing you.

    I think its funny you guys always pick up the Joseph story, when in reality its all evil acts. Look at Jesus being nailed to the cross, it was meant as an evil act, it really is a sin. What they meant for evil in killing Jesus, God used for Good.

    Not Jews, Not Jesus, not anyone ever expresses God being dependent of evil.
     
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    933
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree in general, it is just the subtle tone of your word choices that I find dissonant with “God works all things after the council of His will” [Ephesians 1:11]. God did not just “use” the evil of men wanting to kill Jesus, God predestined it and Christ chose it. God is not “dependent” upon evil, God ordains all that comes to pass ... lifting His hand of restraint where it serves His purposes. [John 19:11]
     
    #91 atpollard, Apr 8, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    And one of my favorites

    Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    If not for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, where does Salvation come from?... Brother Glen:)
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,721
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    6,421
    Likes Received:
    619
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But you cannot have saving faith if you think you can be lost. How can you have faith at all? It is because you don't trust yourself thinking faith comes from you and not God. This is not biblical saving faith.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,806
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God the father determined that the messiah would die on that Cross, and sinners plotted to bring that to pass!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    50,806
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Cross ultimate proof of that truth, as the Trinity Themselves ordained that the Messiah would die for the sins of His people, and yet sinners willing did as they desired to get Him crucified!
     
  17. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    A covenant requires both parties to do their part for it to work.
    And a saving covenant requires both parties to do their part.

    We BACs must co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit
    ... as He strives to sanctify us unto holiness
    ... during the process of sanctification.

    The new covenant has many IFs and BUTs in it.

    Please, discard your false beliefs, false doctrines, etc.
    and OPEN your heart and mind to spiritual Truth, which is found in the NT.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    3,944
    Likes Received:
    765
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hebrews 6:13-20 disagrees with your assertion.
    For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself, saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.” And thus Abraham, having patiently waited, obtained the promise. For people swear by something greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation. So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

    God's covenant with Abraham only required God to pass through the sacrifice, not Abraham.

    You add what God does not add. You require salvation by law, apart from grace.
     
  19. Samuels

    Samuels Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    BACs must depend on God's grace to be saved.
    I even believe that God must first make a BIG-TIME move on behalf of the non-believer!
    Witness Lydia in Acts 16:14.

    Butski, BACs have the free-will to reject God's glorious grace
    and, for example, live a life of habitual sin.
    This would be rejecting the requirements of the new covenant:
    true saving faith = belief-faith-trust + obedience + righteousness + holiness.
    Please see Romans 6:16-19, which agrees with many NT verses/passages).
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    6,421
    Likes Received:
    619
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does the New Covenant require salvation by works? Not according to Paul. The Born Again believe as a result of God's saving grace. We are not born by the will of the flesh.

    “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13 (KJV 1900)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...