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Featured United Methodist bishops acknowledge breakup is imminent

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Salty, Jun 25, 2022.

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  1. LaGrange

    LaGrange Member

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    Hi Salty,

    Yea, I personally think my church, the Catholic Church, is heading for schism. The German Bishops especially are bringing us to the brink. They are doing the same thing as the Methodists to a certain extent. They are blessing same-sex unions and promoting other things like that. Bishop Sheen, around 1950, predicted that there would be some major event around 2,000ad+ because, he said, every 500 years we go through a major historical change. He said we had the Fall of the Roman Empire around 476ad, the Great Schism in 1054ad, the Protestant Reformation in 1517ad and now we are coming up on and due another change. It seems that it is always the Germans! Lol
     
  2. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Holy Scripture is clear that this is coming. Our Lord will guide the Church through these troubled waters. t’s better than schism, however you want to say it, and one of the historic roles of the Pope, as the successor of Peter and as the ecumenical center of the Church, is to try to do what he can to promote reconciliation among Christians and to help lead people along, accompany them, if you will, and lead them closer to Jesus, and help diminish some of the partisanship that leads to these different problems, but as we said, sounds like the church of Corinth. These divisions have been there since the beginning. It’s part of fallen human nature, and we don’t need to be scared of it, if I can put it that way.
     
  3. LaGrange

    LaGrange Member

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    Hi Walter,

    I was just wondering what you mean when you say holy scripture is clear that this is coming. I agree but I was wondering where you are seeing this?
     
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    its the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit, not any Pope!
     
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  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We do not need the papacy, as we find the Lord Jesus and Holy Spirit very sufficient!
     
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  6. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Yup, that's why you have a zillion different denominations all claiming that the Holy Spirit directed them in the development of their doctrines. Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenic? Like is it limited atonement or unlimited atonement, Yeshua1?

    The 'inclusive Methodist' use Isaiah 43:19 to show that the Holy Spirit is doing a 'New Thing' in the church in ordaining practicing homosexuals to the ministry.
     
    #7 Walter, Jun 27, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
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  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    There was a true church of Christ way before the Roman one!
     
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  8. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    History proves otherwise. Not one piece of historical evidence post N.T. backs up your claim that 'Baptistic assemblies existed. However, every piece of historical evidence written after those 27 books were in circulation back up the Catholic interpretation of the N.T.

    BTW, you always ignore my questions because you have no answer for them.
     
  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Yeshua1 and Salty:

    Thankfully intellectually honest Baptists, such as James McGoldrick who was once himself a believer in Baptist successionism are conceding that your view is, frankly, bogus. McGoldrick writes:

    Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history has, however, convinced [the author] that the view he once held so dear has not been, and cannot be, verified. On the contrary, surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable. . . . Although free church groups in ancient and medieval times sometimes promoted doctrines and practices agreeable to modern Baptists, when judged by standards now acknowledged as baptistic, not one of them merits recognition as a Baptist church. Baptists arose in the 17th century in Holland and England. They are Protestants, heirs of the reformers. (Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History [1994], 1–2)
     
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Unless you count the existence of local churches in the book of Acts, and the non-Roman Bishops that form the other Orthodox Churches. Local churches are a Baptist distinctive reasserted from scripture.

    The word “Baptizo” means to plunge under (as was the preferred method according to the ECF writings). Baptizing believers as was illustrated in Acts, is another Baptist distinctive reasserted from scripture.

    (You get the idea.)
     
  11. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Our Catholic Church baptizes by immersion as well as pouring. The Orhodox Catholic Church baptizes by immersion only. Since baptism is nothing but a symbol to you, what is the big deal anyway? However, Irenaeus’s treatment of the Eucharist in book V, chapter 2.2, of Against Heresies in which the saint draws on the teaching of St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 to respond to people who denied the Real Presence:

    'He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receive the word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?' Not a Baptist distinctive is it???

    Indeed, the Church Fathers acknowledged that there were heretics in the early Church who denied the Real Presence, and yet the erroneous teaching of those heretics did not endure, whereas the Church’s teaching—see Matthew 16:18, 1 Timothy 3:15—did. This is because Jesus taught his Real Presence in the Eucharist, and he promised to guide his Church into all truth.

    The Holy Scripture and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing denominations, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls “the pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).
     
    #12 Walter, Jun 29, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We would say that the churches in Acts were far more Baptist in their theology then theology of Rome!
     
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  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    NONE of the early church fathers were inspired and apostles of God, were they?
     
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  14. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Inspired? No. But, they give us a clear picture that the Early Church looked NOTHING like the church you attend and they were much closer to the time of the apostles than any of your reformers, plus, even St. Ignatius of Antioch (who affirms Catholic teaching) sat at the feet of St. John for instruction. Any of your Baptist 'distinctives' crop up in his writings? I think not!
     
  15. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    And the Jehovah's witness would say the churches in Acts look more like their 'church' (and SDA, LDS, Church of Christ, etc).
     
    #16 Walter, Jun 29, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  16. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    Despite the issues with German Bishops and Pope Frances. I do not think their will be a schism within the Catholic Church. They need to clear house, by either natural death or excommunication. I have zero confidents in Pope Francis and I am not even Catholic (confessional Lutheran).

    I was just in Lexington Ky and walked by St. Paul’s Catholic Church. They had a rainbow flag banner. Went to their parish website and they had our Lady, the blessed virgin St. Mary, the mother of God, wrapped in a rainbow flag, etc. I emailed the parish and asked them, how do you square this ministry with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

    Homosexuality
    Sacred Scripture
    OT Ge 19:1–29, Le 18:22, 20:13, Dt 23:17, Jdg 19:22, 1 Ki 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, 2 Ki 23:7, Job 36:14
    NT Ro 1:24–27, 1 Ti 1:10, 1 Co 6:9

    Church Teaching Catechism CCC 2357–2359

    Ecclesiastical Writers

    Apostolic Fathers Barn 19.4
    St. Augustine Conf. 3.8.15
    St. Thomas Aquinas STh., II-II q.154 a.11–a.12

    Shockingly, they never replied.

    I know it is not a reflection on all Catholics. There are plenty of liberal rainbow flying Baptist.

    Lutheran Satire just put out an hilarious video on Pope Frances.

    Frank the Hippie Pope Resigns

     
  17. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I DO love Lutheran Satire and am not a fan of Pope Francis. Pope Benedict is a brilliant theologian who published books that most seminarians have difficulty digesting.

    I don't think there will be a schism within the Holy Catholic Church but a house cleaning.
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    They held to scriptures alone as being authoritative and inspired, believers baptism, no Papacy, does not sound catholic at all!
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Church of Rome is Apostate, needed to heed the reformation and back then "clean house"
     
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