Universal Church

I don't think they were omniscient; I know that all humans are fallible and their intellectual creations (such as confessions and systemic theologies) are fallible.

I believe they were making a good faith effort to be true to Scripture and threw out what they thought was unbiblical and altered dogmas in light of how they understood the Bible. What I reject is the notion that they just swallowed a doctrine without considering its implications or making their own modifications to align it with their view of Scripture. They may have been wrong in their conceptions of a universal church, but it was not because they were just going with the flow.

 

I concur.

I also reject that notion.

I agree. But there was such an emotional bond to what they already believed by virtue of having been taught, they were unable to overcome the two pronged argument from intellect and from emotion.

I understand how powerful such two pronged arguments can be. I was raised a Sacerdotal Sacramentarian. I believed I was born again in baptism, which was being sprinkled as an infant. I believed my salvation was maintained by eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ via the eucharist. My entire religious education had centered on those teachings.

Add to that my family. My siblings. My parents. My grandparents. All believed the same thing, and to question those teachings was to question them and their veracity. It was not until I was 27 that I was able to see past the indoctrination of church leadership, and the emotional manipulation of my family, and recognize the Truth when I saw it.

It was then that God regenerated my sin sick soul, gave me faith to believe, the ability to repent and obey, and stand for that new found Truth in the face of all that opposition. But I discovered something on that long long journey. The words of men mean very little to me. My faith has found a resting place, not in device nor creed; I trust the Ever-living One, His wounds for me shall plead.

Why? My heart is leaning on the Word, The written Word of God, Salvation by my Savior’s name, Salvation through His blood.

It is the words of God that convinces and convicts my soul, not the words of men. Even those who stand, for the most part, in my heritage of faith. But when faced with a conflict between their words and God's words, I always choose God's words.

I see things differently than you. That is probably because we came at the subject from different directions. And, possibly, because I have made Christ and His church a primary focus of my study, for a long, long time. And possibly due to my age. You can cram a lot of study into 70+ years.

 

Yes, we have followed the Lord in believers baptism. What's your point?

 

Never, never, never, anywhere in the New Testament is the Holy Spirit the active voice baptizer. Never.

 

Christ is the active voice baptizer and the Holy Spirit is the medium into which we are immersed.

Christ baptized us in the Holy Spirit, not the other way around.

 

I am just saying that Yeshua1 is dead wrong when he says "He (The Holy Spirit) comes to baptize us into Christ."

 

Wrong again. No scripture to support that charismatic myth.

 

Actually churches all over the world baptize people every day.

 

That's water baptism done by a local church.