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Unlimited Atonement

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Pastor_Bob, Sep 26, 2018.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    A point for all to note: "Free will" can only refer to men being "self willed" opposed to "God's will."
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If Christ paid for everyone's sin, including those in the flood and the Canaanites, why aren't all saved in the end?
     
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  3. HopefulNChrist

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    There was a moment in your postings that suggested "universalism" and when you were accused of implying it, you did come across as trying to defend universalism, which you weren't. It is unfortunate that it happened but your clarity here in this post says it all so there should be no further disagreement.

    I believe the darkness at His crucifixion which the day was approaching the annual sabbath when the moon was full, and His separation from the Father was that moment when He took the sins of the world upon Himself including the effects of sin on fallen creation. The Light of the world went out as the Creator of the universe became our Redeemer, and His resurrection was His victory over death. Soon, at the great white throne judgment, death and hades will be cast into the lake of fire as sin will never separate His creation from God ever again. There will be much rejoicing in the kingdom of Heaven.

    Thallus, a secular historian assumed it was an eclipse, but Josephus Africanus,a Christian historian, said that it was not likely since had had knowledge of the annual sabbath at the full moon as it was and is the Jewish tradition for the annual sabbath..
     
  4. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Because the effects of Christ's death are only applied through Faith. Christ is redeeming all of creation, but that does not mean everyone will be saved.
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The the atonement didn't pay for the sin of unbelief?
     
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    "Strawman" is not an answer.

    Except I don't.

    So your personal attack is my fault?

    No, my question pointed out the falsity of your claim.

    Again, how does a lost person enter into the Heavenly Holy of Holies and "appropriate" that which is on the Mercy Seat? Either Christ atoned for their sin or He didn't. You can't add man's works to Christ's finished work.

    And again you conflate Christ's death for all with Christ's atonement. They are NOT the same thing. That has been explained to you over and over again.

    No, the universalism box is yours not mine. I do not believe the atonement was universal. I believe it only atones for the sins of believers.

    So He couldn't quite pull it off so He needed our help to save us. We had to add our works to His (un)finished work?

    So there we have it. You have to add something to Christ's (un)finished work.

    All of Him. None of me. Christ is not a failure. He doesn't just try and fail to save people. He saves those whom He will save. He never fails.
     
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  7. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

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    You're merely spinning words here and trying to lock them into a mode which proves Calvinism. Yes Jesus is the High Priest in the Holy of Holies...were aren't! Agreed. None of this demonstrates that the sinner doesn't need to receive God's grace by and act of their will.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Every person who has been saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit will be raptured/glorified, as the seal of the Spirit makes that person one of His, and Jesus is coming back to raise up all of His own, not just some of them!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Wonder if Jude saw salvation as being conditional, based upon his ending of his book?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stated that the natural lost sinner cannot receive spiritual things of the Lord, correct?
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    All names begin in the book of life. Names are blotted out because of sin. Unless one has without any merit trusted in God their names will have been blotted out do to sin.

    The reason in the judgement people perish is their names are not in the book (Revelation 20:15; Exodus 32:33).

    Only those who are counted as children in God's sight will not have their names removed (Mark 10:15; John 3:3; 1 John 5:4; Revelation 3:5). For whom Christ redeems. The rest will receive the greater damnation with Christ as their Judge (Romans 14:9-11).
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Book of life was just the physical life assigned to all born, nothing to do witj tje Lambs book of life, as all who are in that One will never be erased out!
     
  13. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

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    But God gives spiritual enlightenment to all and they choose to either hate the light or accept it correct?

    That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Jn 1:9

    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jn 3:19
     
  14. HopefulNChrist

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    So let me get this straight about the "argument" in this thread as it seems to be going round and round.:

    One side argues against Christ's ransom being able to save all in order to oppose that wrongful application of the part of that verse as being towards Universalism while those who contend for Christ's ransom to be able to pay for all are applying that truth by how that ransom can only be applied towards, and that is "especially" towards those that believe.

    John 3:18 cites that Christ's ransom was not applied to those who do not believe by testifying that they were already condemned.

    So I think it is a matter of realizing what the scripture is saying is that Christ's ransom has the power to save all, but as the rest of that verse testify, His ransom can only be applied especially to those that believe. Otherwise, there would be no need to say "specially of those that believe". In other words, God is the Saviour of all those that believe in Him.

    1 Timothy 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.
     
  15. HopefulNChrist

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    If that is true, why has the church been taught to excommunicate unrepentant believers living in sin as in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 ?

    Why did Paul issued a commandment from the Lord for believers to withdraw from wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that no longer walk after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 , but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15?

    Why has the Baptist forum divided the body of believers that are "officially" Baptists from the rest of the body of believers that are "Christians"? Is it because of this scripture below?

    1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    Scripture proves how the body of believers are to treat those contrary to the faith and traditions taught of us, but yet still they are to be acknowledged as His, but to withdraw to lead them to repentance; in order to also hold the feast of fellowship in sincerity and in truth. You better believe the Bridegroom is going to judge His House in that same way at the pre great trib rapture event.

    Those disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper table are still saved, but there are works on that foundation that deny Him which is why they are denied attendance to the Marriage Supper table in Heaven, but they are not denied reception into the Millennium reign after the great tribulation.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Exodus 32:33. Psalms 69:27-28. And now only those who overcome through faith in Christ will not in any way have their names blotted out (1 John 5:4; Revelation 3:5).

    Their names were in the book before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).

    The ones who perish are the ones whose names are not in the book (Revelation 20:15)
     
  17. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The names not found in the Book are the ones blotted out.
     
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  18. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    why do you says this,,,? Explain your difference please?
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The intent of the Cross of God was not to save all lost sinners, but to save only those whom he would draw and call and bring to Jesus!
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    In the OT, when it describes names being blotted out of the book, refersd to them being killed physically, and removed from Israel. The in revelation refers to those who have eternal /spiritual life, and none ever are removed from there, as God placed them there Himself! He would not contridicyt Himself!
     
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