USA's Protestant Minority (soon)

[Artimaeus]

Survey: USA's Protestant majority might soon be no more. LINK HERE

By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY

New statistics on religious diversity show the USA's historic Protestant majority has plummeted to 52%, and by the end of 2004 it may no longer be the nation's dominant religious group.

..."Growing pluralism forces an examination of our commonality," he says. "How do we find basis for agreement" in schools, neighborhoods and voting booths?

I hope those on this board who view pluralism and diversity as such a good thing will not soon regret their support. Especially when decisions of the majority no longer even resemble a reflection of Christian values.

 

[mioque]

"How quickly the scales tip depends on how statisticians count the rapidly growing Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Smith says. The survey makes a theologically controversial decision to include them as Protestants. Nearly 2% of Americans said they were Mormons in 2002."
''
Controversial is putting it mildly, I wouldn't even describe the Mormons as Christians let alone Protestants.

"Growing pluralism forces an examination of our commonality," he says. "How do we find basis for agreement" in schools, neighborhoods and voting booths? "
''
ahum.. The USA having a problem handling pluralism? That's the silliest remark of the week.
The national motto of the place always was and still is: E Pluribus Unum (=Out of many One).

Artimaeus
"Especially when decisions of the majority no longer even resemble a reflection of Christian values. "
''
People on this board have been steadily complaining about the fall of Christian values in the US since the 50's. So that problem has been going on for ages.
Now judging by that survey. 79% of all Americans still saw themselves as Christians in 2002. 4 out of 5 isn't to bad. Allthough the Protestant drop is troubling.

 

[KenH]

Counting in Catholics, Christians will still be in the majority in these United States.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Artimaeus:
I hope those on this board who view pluralism and diversity as such a good thing will not soon regret their support. Especially when decisions of the majority no longer even resemble a reflection of Christian values.

Whoa there!

First, you're presuming that the only Christian values are "protestant" values.

Second, the whole "protestant majority" thing is incredibly subjective. Many Baptists and other denominations/groups will say that they're not protestant.

Third, there has never been a "majority religion" in the US, unless you juggle denominational numbers and put them under the general term "Christian". But many Baptist won't consider Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans Christians.

Besides,who cares what demographics say? Last time I checked my Bible, my faith is supposed to be a personal individual relationship, not a denominational institution.

 

[Scott J]

About 45% of Americans claim to be "born again".

If faithfulness to church is any indicator then those who actually take their faith seriously constitutes much less than half.

Operating on my personal interpretation of which churches hold sound enough doctrines on salvation to be leading their congregations to Christ plus various statistics I have seen, I would estimate that less than 15% of Americans are genuine, born again believers.

I think Barna had a survey that showed only 4% of American adults have a biblical worldview. He says only 7% of professing Christians and 9% of self-identified "born again" believers answered with a biblical worldview.

My bottom line is that we stopped being a majority a long time ago if we ever were a majority. Apparently for the sake of 10.... percent, God has blessed the USA.

 

[Scott J]

Here are the characteristics he used to determine if one had a biblical worldview or not:

For the purposes of the research, a biblical worldview was defined as believing that absolute moral truths exist; that such truth is defined by the Bible; and firm belief in six specific religious views. Those views were that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life; God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe and He stills rules it today; salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned; Satan is real; a Christian has a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with other people; and the Bible is accurate in all of its teachings.

... maybe too lenient???

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by mioque:
E Pluribus Unum (=Out of many One).

That is a great idea but the problem is, that it isn't the concept that is being pushed. That one is "E Pluribus Pluribus" The are no longer melting into the pot but are remaining seperate globs.

4 out of 5 isn't to bad. Allthough the Protestant drop is troubling.

In Early American History the percentages were: Protestant 98%, Roman Catholic 1.8% and Jewish .2%. Now, the percentages are vastly different and trending to even worse percentages. When should we become concerned? When the percentages are insignificant and the previous minorities are then yelling, "Majority rules, Majority rules!!!". It is important to become concerned now because more and more decisions are being made that are contrary to Biblical principles

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Personally, I don't want to be in the majority:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Watchman]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Personally, I don't want to be in the majority:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You have well said.

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
Personally, I don't want to be in the majority:

Yeah, I know what you mean. I would certainly like to see fewer Christians, too.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Artimaeus:
That is a great idea but the problem is, that it isn't the concept that is being pushed. That one is "E Pluribus Pluribus" The are no longer melting into the pot but are remaining seperate globs.

The "melting pot" concept as never intended to equate to all assimilating into one congruent culture. It has never been so. From the beginning, cultural diversity was the rule, not the exception. Back then, it was English, Irish, Dutch, and German.

In Early American History the percentages were: Protestant 98%, Roman Catholic 1.8% and Jewish .2%. Now, the percentages are vastly different and trending to even worse percentages. When should we become concerned?

What concerns me is that you use the word "worse" to describe the trend. As though only protestantism is good.

... more and more decisions are being made that are contrary to Biblical principles

First, Protestants to not have a monopoly on Christian principles. Second, the primary premise of our society is not Christian principles, but individual liberties. I certainly do not want to go back to the early days when failure to attending church was punishable by imprisonment.

 

[amixedupmom]

I've always prided myself on being diffrent from everyone else. That my values adhere to a higher standard. Although sometimes I fall, I still try to keep them up there. I do worry about what kind of world my children are going to mold for their children. We can only take this a step at a time. And, not worry about the future.

 

[rufus]

I hope those on this board who view pluralism and diversity as such a good thing will not soon regret their support. Especially when decisions of the majority no longer even resemble a reflection of Christian values.

It is happening all too fast, friend. Postmodernism is catapulting us away from Christian values in general

 

[mioque]

"In Early American History the percentages were: Protestant 98%, Roman Catholic 1.8% and Jewish .2%."
''
You forgot to include the Deïsts and that the diversity of opinion among the early American Protestants was umm.. impressive. There is a reason for the fact that the US was set up as a secular country from the start.

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by Johnv:
From the beginning, cultural diversity was the rule, not the exception. Back then, it was English, Irish, Dutch, and German.

It was the rule, yes, but not the goal. Besides, I wasn't talking about cultural differences, which are basically irrelevant in the long run. I was talking about religious differences and I don't mean the politically correct view of holding all religions as equally valid. True Christianity is the only valid religion.

What concerns me is that you use the word "worse" to describe the trend. As though only protestantism is good.

I used "worse" because a survey which indicates that there are fewer and fewer people who even claim to be Christian then there once was in not "better".

First, Protestants to not have a monopoly on Christian principles.

Group #1 - Roman Catholics, Jews, Mormons (I know the survey misidentified them), Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus, Moonies, Hare Krisnas, etc.

Group #2 - Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, "non-denominational Protestants

As a Christian, which group would you like to see having the most influence on the society you live in? I say it is worse if there are more and more of Group 1 and you say it isn't worse. I don't consider ANY of the religions in group one to be Christian. I don't consider SOME of the subgroups in Group two to be Christian. The odds of some individual being a Christin and a member of Group 1 is relatively small with the odds increasing significantly for those in Group 2. As a general rule Group 2 will make more Christian decisions than Group 1. Therefore, the higher the percentage of the population in Group 2 the better.

 

[mioque]

"As a Christian, which group would you like to see having the most influence on the society you live in?"
''
I've always been a fan of the notion invented by Abraham Kuyper that the left-right divide in politics shouldn't be liberal/conservative, but non-Christian/Christian.
Anyway according to Kuyper's few you placed a number of groups on the wrong side of the divide.

"I don't consider ANY of the religions in group one to be Christian."
"
The Eastern-Orthodox as well? At least you earn some points for having a consistent worldview. All those Americans who perceive the RCC as the spawn of Satan, but think of Eastern Orthodoxy as denomination just like them get a bit tiresome after a while.

"I don't consider SOME of the subgroups in Group two to be Christian."
''
Those naughty Lutherans.
Seriously your definition of Christian is most likely so stringent that you would most likely never be happy unless 200+ million Americans switch to your preferred branch of the Faith.

 

[church mouse guy]

America was not set up as a secular country, Mioque. That is a leftist myth.

Many of the people who settled in America were refugees from the cruelty of the Roman Catholic Church. Since the Roman Catholic Church has never changed, we can expect trouble from the Catholics aligned with non-Christians in the future.

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by mioque:
according to Kuyper's few you placed a number of groups on the wrong side of the divide.

I don't remember Kuyper consulting me when he pontificated soooo...I returned the favor.

Seriously your definition of Christian is most likely so stringent that you would most likely never be happy unless 200+ million Americans switch to your preferred branch of the Faith.

I would be quite happy if the entire population of the earth were to switch to what I thought. However, I am not holding my breath. Why would anyone, who thinks they are right, NOT want everyone to agree with them.

 

[mioque]

CMG
"That is a leftist myth."
''
Be so kind to name the State religion of the United States at the time of it's founding.

"Since the Roman Catholic Church has never changed,"
''
Actually Catholicism has changed numerous times over the centuries.
The most recent drastic reorganisation taking place in 1963 (Vaticanum II).

"we can expect trouble from the Catholics aligned with non-Christians in the future. "
''
The simple fact that you can nowadays be paranoid about a political coalition between loyal RC's and assorted non-RC's is evidence of a dramatic change. Such a thing would have been unthinkable less than a cemtury ago.

Artimaeus
"I don't remember Kuyper consulting me when he pontificated soooo...I returned the favor."
''
He died before you were born so he can be forgiven that little oversight.

 

[church mouse guy]

Here, Mioque, is what some of the Founding Fathers wrote. Don't feel bad; Europeans have no idea, and the Dutch were so bad that the Pilgrims fled to the wilderness of America.

Daniel Webster (well, second-generation), "The Christian religion--its general principles--must ever be regarded among us as the foundation of civil socitey."

Patrick Henry, "[The Bible] is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed."

Noah Webster, "The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws."

John Adams, "Religion and virtue are the only foundations...of republicanism and of all free governments."

DeWitt Clinton, "The sanctions of religion compose the foundations of good government."

Patrick Henry, "The rising greatness of our country...is greatly tarnished by the general prevalence of deism which, with me, is but another name for vice and depravity....I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and indeed that some good people think that I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory, because I think religion of infintely higher importance than politics....Being a Christian...is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast."

Patrick Henry was one of many who expressed this idea, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."

On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."