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verses please

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by massdak, Nov 23, 2002.

  1. massdak

    massdak Active Member

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    this is only a request for verses that support free will (arminian) and also verses that support Gods sovereignty (calvanism) as many as that are ever used in argument or debate to support its own doctrine.
    and i will thank you all in advance
    massdak
     
  2. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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  3. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Massdak, I think trying to divide Christians into those two categories is faulty. We try to categorize things for the sake of our own understanding, but that is not how real life usually works.

    The point is NOT who uses which verses, but how they ALL come together and harmonize to give us the truth of God's Word.
     
  4. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    To look at it otherwise leads one to the danger of a myopic "denominational" view of the Gospel. The focus on one set of verses often makes it easy to jump to some wrong conclusions even if most of your conclusions are right. And the focus on one aspect of the truth -- even if it is truth -- often starts to takes precedence over our focus on Jesus.

    I happen to believe that salvation by free-will choice is wholly absent from scripture, but that isn't my point in this case. IMO scripture includes (or at least alludes to) issues I do not fully understand in view of strict (or hyper) Calvinism. That doesn't mean election is false, but if one stops at 100 verses of support, one may never figure out where to place the 5 verses that don't seem to fit in the puzzle -- and it may be because some of the 100 were misplaced.

    I'd go on, but the problem I'm wrestling with right not really deserves another thread and more time to figure out how to explain it.
     
  5. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    I think that strict Calvinism is simply to teach all of the TULIP. Hyper-Calvinism teaches all of the TULIP but reaches wrong conclusions on what it means for evangelism.

    Ken
     
  6. massdak

    massdak Active Member

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    thanks scott i will look into that site.
    and helen i believe scripture can prove or disprove some verses that supports an issue or not. are you being a little condescending to suggest what i feel the verses importance is for. are you not willing to see how the scriptures show mans inability to choose the righteousness of Christ without God drawing man?
     
  7. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I can't win no matter what I say here, can I?
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    Helen,

    Certain verses do address particular subjects more than others, but I think you made a good point about harmonizing the Bible.

    That's why I am a Calvinist. [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    I don't know what you mean. I included one line disagreeing with your position, but most of what I said was in support of your approach.
     
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