Victory In Christ

Another one of your lies about me, Dale? I never said man was sovereign over God. Don't accuse me of something I did not say.

 

What are these people elect to here?

How about here?

How about here?

 

Ok, rather than diging up old posts.
Answer me this:

Do you believe God predestinates all who will believe or do you believe that God looks into the future to see who will believe and then elects or predestinates them according to their belief?

In other words, do you believe that the ultimate choice in who gets saved and who doesn't is man (IE his belief and faith) or is it God, ie he gives us a new heart and gives us faith to believe based on HIs own good pleasure from before the foundation of the world?

 

Npet, those are not the normal type of election. That is the non choosing type.
YOu could call it "welches election"

 

The key word is not predestination, Dale. Predestinate primarily means to limit in advance figuratively, it means predetermine. It also can mean ordain.

But as I said, the key word in Romans is not predestinate as the Calvinists like to use. The key word is foreknow.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)

Those whom Christ knew before the foundation of the world, those He knew who would come to Him.


The saved are predestined to be conformed to the image of His dear Son, not predestined to be saved. Christ already knew that they would choose to serve Him, not that He chose them to be puppets with no will to choose to reject Him.

 

Ahh...I knew it.
YOu believe that man is sovereign in salvation.
You believe that the eternal destiny of man lies in his own decisions, not those of God's.

You believe that God sees but can't do ( or won't do) anything about it.

 

Ok, so you believe God knows who will and who won't be saved.
God sure got lucky that some actually chose Him is that is true.

It would have been just too bad if they had all decided to go their own way.

 

So I think what you are saying is that we are really "postpredestinated"

By the way, my spell checker didn't like that word at all.


Your view is unBiblical and makes no sense. HOw does He know something that hasn't happened yet?

God knows what will happen because He has decreed that it will in fact happen.

 

I don't see the word limit there at all.
Yes, it could be said to ordain.

 

I missed the keyword designation. You will show me how to figure that out sometime.

 

So let me see if I understand you. God knows all things because He decrees all things, so God knew you were going to type that statement, because He in fact decreed that you would write that statement and therefore you had no choice in how you worded that statement?

And the same would go for my post and then every word that you speak and every word that I speak?

Am I understanding you correctly?

 

elect to be saved makes no sense.

 

2 Tim 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

Who are the elect he is speaking about? I believe it is other than the they in that verse. The they are those who have been persecuting Paul in his bonds. The prior verses would point to that.

If Paul did not endure all things then it would make those who were persecuting him think all others who were called the elect look weak.

Again, there are some who are called saints but not elect? Why not if all saved are elect?

 

8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they (THE ELECT) also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

 

doesn't say they (the elect), npetreley. It only works if you insert it, huh?

 

8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, <--- that <--- (duh) they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

For crying out loud, HB, you think the 1689 London Baptist Confession is talking about grape juice. Like any sane person is going to take your interpretation of anything seriously?

 

Sorry, npetreley, you can trust the LBC, I will place my faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.

 

It has nothing to do with the LBC, although I can see why you missed the point. That IS the point.

1. You missed the plain meaning of a paragraph from the LBC about transubstantiation and thought it was talking about grape juice

2. You think a person is disqualified for Deacon if he drinks too much grape juice

3. You still think the Bible tells you to abstain from appearing evil, even though Jesus kept the company of people the Pharisees thought were the "bad" sinners, was accused of being evil, and Paul plainly says not to judge another according to what they eat or drink and that our liberty is not determined by another man's conscience

4. You think the Bible teaches that if we assume Jesus drank or made real wine we must not be saved

5. The text says "they" with no visible reference except to the elect, but you insist it can't be referring to the elect

6. You won't deal with the fact that Modern English is different than contemporary English

7. You quote a Greek snippet from a concordance and still insist you got it from a Greek New Testament

You say you trust God's Word. My question is how do you understand any of it? Special revelation by the Spirit? How is it that the Spirit reveals His word to you but doesn't help you admit when you're wrong, or confess that you weren't really using a Greek New Testament? Or is pride and deception not a problem as long as you believe wine is grape juice?

 

You are trusting a Christ who allows alcohol, the poison of dragons, in the life of Christians.

That says enough.

My last post. You will not receive the truth, God can use someone else to get the word across. I pray He does.