1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Views of Baptist Origins

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by rlvaughn, Jan 8, 2002.

Top Posters
Page 2 of 3
  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,009
    Likes Received:
    2,402
    Faith:
    Baptist
    First of all Micheal I'm an Old Line Primitive Baptist and I don't think so. All Baptist are off branches of the split that happened in 1832... The Old School Baptist went one way and The New School selected a different path.

    I heard of the Landmark but I assure they are not even near Primitive Baptist. We are not of the Calvanistic mindset either as we were before Calvin.

    We do not believe in Missions, Sunday Schools, Salaried Ministries, Instrumental Music in worship, Seminary Trained Clergy, and never Women Ministers. We believe in The King James Version as the inspired word of God and except no others. We are also rebaptizers and if you come from another denomination besides our faith and order you must be rebaptized. We also believe that all those Christ died for will be in heaven no matter if they ever hear the gospel and that the commission is feed the sheep not make them.
    I have been in the Primitive Baptist Church almost all my life. My Dad was an Old Baptist before me and his Father before him.
    I guess you can say it runs in the family

    Not many come to our faith out of other denominations as you can see why. We do not have a main governing body as all churches govern themselves according to doctrine. Our doctrine is hard to accept and we know that and can trace our lineage to the river Jordan through the many that have embraced this same belief over the centuries... I hope this helps... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
    #21 tyndale1946, Jan 28, 2002
  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,852
    Likes Received:
    1,085
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, Tyndale, at least you're consistent. If people are saved purely by grace, there's no reason they actually have to hear the gospel, is there? God saves whom he will save, and the human intermediary of preaching the gospel is unncessary.
     
    #22 rsr, Jan 28, 2002
  3. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    8,877
    Likes Received:
    4
    Faith:
    Baptist
    rsr -

    Brother Glen is merely stating the doctrine that his sect of Baptist follow. There are some old threads on the denominational forum that you are welcome to review. I have learned a great deal of respect for our Primitive bretheren. They adhere to true historic Baptist principles better than most of us do, IMO.

    By the way, I'm gonna make a posting on MY first vehicle one day soon. Be watching for it.

    - Clint
     
    #23 Clint Kritzer, Jan 28, 2002
  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,009
    Likes Received:
    2,402
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is correct Brother Clint weather anyone believes as we do is the light they are given according to God. Like I said not all Baptist can believe as we do. If God wanted us all to believe the same thing why didn't he make it so. Wouldn't it be more God honoring but then I'm not God!... Just my thoughts... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
    #24 tyndale1946, Jan 28, 2002
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,852
    Likes Received:
    1,085
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I meant no disrepect. I was serious. I've learned a lot about Primitive Baptists on the forum and have no intent to denigrate them. I don't agree with their doctrine, but that's beside the point. They are consistent.

    Looking forward to hearing about old trucks.
     
    #25 rsr, Jan 29, 2002
  6. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    2,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Howdy.

    Since Robert asked me to comment, I will, but no one will probably like it,so I'll duck and run afterward. I should also state that by training in life and temperment I am a historian.

    Some primitive baptists would take some view close to Landmarkism and follow some convoluted twists and turns to get back to an apostolic succession. Others have views that our doctrines of grace have been preached somewhere all through history since Pentecost.

    Personnally I tend to think the English separatist view has more credible historical evidence to support it. It isn't something that I worry about, fret about or lose any sleep over one way or the other.

    Jeff
     
    #26 Jeff Weaver, Jan 30, 2002
  7. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    Why is it that those who seem most vociferous in their denunciation of "Landmarkism" don't seem to know what Landmarkism is? Every time I see "apostolic succession" linked to Landmarkism I roll on the floor laughing. What nonsense!
     
    #27 DocCas, Jan 30, 2002
  8. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    8,877
    Likes Received:
    4
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please enlighten us as to your interpretation of Landmarkism, Mr. Cassidy. [​IMG]

    - Clint

    By the way, very good to see you in here again, Jeff. Your absences are far too long for such an important contributor!

    [ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]
     
    #28 Clint Kritzer, Jan 30, 2002
  9. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    I would be happy to! [​IMG]

    In his book "Old Landmarkism, What Is It" J.R. Graves states the "marks" of a Landmarker:

    1. The church of Christ is a divine institution.

    2. The church of Christ is a visible institution.

    3. The church of Christ is located on this Earth.

    4. The church of Christ is a local organization, a single congregation.

    5. The membership of the church of Christ are all professedly regenerate in heart before baptism.

    6. The baptism of the church of Christ is the profession, on the part of the subject, of the faith of the Gospel by which he is saved.

    7. The Lord's Supper was observed as a local church ordinance, commemorative only of the sacrificial chastisement of Christ for His people, never expressive of personal fellowship, or of courtesy for others, or used as a sacrament.

    Those seven "marks" deliniate what Landmarkism originally was. Today some have added and added and added to what a Landmarker is, but those additions, much like the additions to the fundamentals of the faith, have nothing to do with true Landmarkism.
     
    #29 DocCas, Jan 30, 2002
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Brother Jeff, I'm with Clint - good to hear from you. I'm wondering if you have an idea on what might be the predominant view of Baptist origins among Primitive Baptists, and also if you have any thoughts on Hassell's view of Baptist origins? His book seems to be the most well-known Baptist history among Primitive Baptists.
     
    #30 rlvaughn, Jan 30, 2002
  11. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think it may prove interesting, in connection with this topic, to note how different groups within the Baptist denomination view the origin of Baptists. It should be remembered, however, that the viewpoint is ultimately only that of the author and is not necessarily representative of the entire group.

    General Baptist - Ollie Latch, History of the General Baptists: "Many interesting, but profitless labors have been expended in times past to the tracing of Baptist churches back through the historical lag of the centuries (p. 1)." "The stream of Baptist history shows clearly that all Baptist movements have had their stem in the work of Smyth and Helwys (p. 75)."

    Southern Baptist - John T. Christian, A History of the Baptists: "I have no question in my own mind that there has been a historical succession of Baptists from the days of Christ to the present time (pp. 5,6)."

    Southern Baptist - W. W. Barnes, in The Encyclopedia of Southern Baptists, Vol. I notes that Baptists originated with John Smyth and Thomas Helwys (p. 135).

    Primitive Baptist - J. S. Newman, The Baptists in All Ages: "Any church that can be traced back to some man as its originator is not the 'one church' of the New Testament. It is said by a man inspired (Dan. 2:44) that the church was set up by the God of heaven and that it 'shall never be destroyed' and it 'shall stand forever.'...As the church was established upon Jesus as its foundation, and as it cannot be moved, destroyed, prevailed against, and must stand forever, we have positive proof that the one church has been in existence ever since the days of those kings (p. 2)."

    Independent Baptist - Roy Dearmore, Biblical Missions: "Unaffiliated Baptist churches have existed continously, carrying out the great commission, since the founding of the first Baptist Church (Baptist in doctrine and practice) by Christ in Jerusalem about 26 A.D. (Preface)"

    [ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
    #31 rlvaughn, Feb 3, 2002
  12. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    Amen and amen! Roy has it right. By the way, Roy is a good friend of mine and a missionary with over 35 years on the mission field. And a 3rd generation Baptist preacher.
     
    #32 DocCas, Feb 4, 2002
  13. Wester

    Wester Guest

    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;General Baptist - Ollie Latch, History of the General Baptists: "Many interesting, but profitless labors have been expended in times past to the tracing of Baptist churches back through the historical lag of the centuries (p. 1)." "The stream of Baptist history shows clearly that all Baptist movements have had their stem in the work of Smyth and Helwys (p. 75)."&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
    -----------------------------------------

    While it is appealing to some to claim that they trace their church back to the time of Christ, the above explanation is more likely to be the true explanation.
     
    #33 Wester, Feb 4, 2002
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,009
    Likes Received:
    2,402
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ask and ye shall receive and Wester I know you are just looking for a bone of contention but the others here who are interested in the Baptist of the Primitive line and the footprints leading to the river Jordan you may find this site interesting. I know Brother Robert will being the historian he is and maybe Brother Clint will take a look. I hope this is benefical to all... Brother Glen [​IMG] http://www.carthage.lib.il.us/community/churches/primbap/Ancient.html
     
    #34 tyndale1946, Feb 4, 2002
  15. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Glen, thanks for the link. I am familiar with the Primitive Baptist library site, but hadn't noticed that particular piece. Michael Ivey's article on Primitive Baptist succession is linked somewhere above on the first page, and is a more exhaustive treatment of the same subject.

    Wester, perhaps you can supply us some Free Will Baptist quotes on the subject.And others who are reading this but have not posted may have some resources. Others I would find interesting are National Baptist, GARBC, Old Regular, and Separate, for example.

    [ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
    #35 rlvaughn, Feb 4, 2002
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,009
    Likes Received:
    2,402
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Brother Robert can you give me the link to Elder Mike Iveys article I can't seem to locate it?... I'm lost in my own backyard :eek:... Help!... Brother Glen :confused:

    [ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
    #36 tyndale1946, Feb 4, 2002
  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    #37 rlvaughn, Feb 4, 2002
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,009
    Likes Received:
    2,402
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Brother Robert I know Texas is a big place as my Dad was born in Muleshoe but how far is Denton, Texas from where you are?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
    #38 tyndale1946, Feb 4, 2002
  19. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It would probably take me about four hours to drive to Denton. I am approx. three hours east of Dallas (maybe 2-1/2 to Mesquite). Muleshoe - isn't that the home of Harvey Bass and the Harp of Ages?
     
    #39 rlvaughn, Feb 4, 2002
  20. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2001
    Messages:
    8,877
    Likes Received:
    4
    Faith:
    Baptist
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> ...maybe Brother Clint will take a look. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Brother Glen, as always, Brother Clint is here seeking knowledge, not distributing it! I am most familiar with the Seperatist theory of the 1600's but I find a great deal of interest in the Anabaptist theory.
    Honestly, I like what you once said to me many months ago: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> How does one go about tracing their history?
    You go by your family tree and trace your lineage from one generation to the next and so on and on and on... ect. This is for secular history but the way I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong(I want to know the truth) even if I'm in error. The way you trace our belief is by sound doctrine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I will go back to my cantankerous lurking!

    May God bless you, sir

    - Clint
     
    #40 Clint Kritzer, Feb 4, 2002
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 3
Loading...