Waldes of Lyons' Profession of Faith

I am not sure 100% yet, but for the moment Yes.

What we lack about Waldo is the faith statement after 1182, not before that time, until 1218.

Name-wise, I have not found it yet unless it was attached later on.

 

Read this

http://www.reformedreader.org/history/wylie/ch01.htm

Behind this rampart of mountains, which Providence, foreseeing the approach of evil days, would almost seem to have reared on purpose, did the remnant of the early apostolic Church of Italy kindle their lamp, and here did that lamp continue to burn all through the long night which descended on Christendom. There is a singular concurrence of evidence in favour of their high antiquity. Their traditions invariably point to an unbroken descent from the earliest times, as regards their religious belief. The Nobla Leycon, which dates from the year 1100 [recent German criticism refers the Nobla Leycon to a later date, but still one anterior to the Reformation], goes to prove that the Waldenses of Piedmont did not owe their rise to Peter Waldo of Lyons, who did not appear till the latter half of that century (1169). The Nobla Leycon though a poem, is in reality a confession of faith, and could have been composed only after some considerable study of the system of Christianity, in contradistinction to the errors of Rome. How could a Church have arisen with such a document in her hands? Or how could these herdsmen and vine-dressers, shut up in their mountains, have detected the errors against which they bore testimony, and found their way to the truths of which they made open profession in times of darkness like these? If we grant that their religious beliefs were the heritage of former ages, handed down from an evangelical ancestry, all is plain; but if we maintain that they were the discovery of the men of those days, we assert what approaches almost to a miracle. Their greatest enemies, Claude Seyssel of Turin (1517), and Reynerius the Inquisitor (1250), have admitted their antiquity, and stigmatised them as "the most dangerous of all heretics, because the most ancient."

 

At the moment, the Faith of the Non-Catholic Christians can be confirmed

Peterobrusians ( by around 1125) - Albigenes/Waldenisans ( 1254)

Both are undeniable from the sources of RCC.

What we may lack at this stage is the Confession of Peter Waldo and his followers after 1182 when they were excommunicated, before his death around 1218.

I personally believe that they became more faithful to the Bibel instead of leaning on RCC after their excommunication.

Peter de Bruys must have been a great man in the Lord when we read his confession and argument against RCC.

 

That's OK Matt. I only found out be looking ot up on the net.

 

You cannot deny that Reinerius transferred what he heard from the Inquisition and from his life with Albigenes to the Catholic authority. If you disapprove his report, you are disapproving the whole records of Roman Catholics. Reinerius recorded what he heard and confirmed from the interrogation.

If you deny it for your convenience, you are eager and willing to make mistakes in judging the history. Nobody can deny such facts of the faith of the Believers outside RCC unless anyone is willing to distort the history or to accept the perverted history.


One thing that we cannot get from his report is that we have no information about Peter Waldo for his life during 1182-1218 AD. His report was made only after 1250, around 1254. However, even Reinerius do not refer to Peter Waldo for the start of Albigenesian Faith which is the same as Waldensians' faith but to the time of Pope Sylvester or even earlier than that.

We can clearly notice the great similarity between Petrobrusians and the Albigenes reported by Reinerius as their faith statements are the same.

 

To get into the enemies tesimony of their antiquity I would have to grab Peter Felix's work, which is at my house. Wylie is a credible source, although secondary.

 

If I don't get to it before my business trip, I will after.

 

This is OK.

 

1. What is clear is that there existed some substantial group of the believers outside RCC before the Reformation.

2. At least there existed some people who believed their spiritual ancestors traced back to Sylvester time, not only the today's baptists or brethren.

3. Reinerius must have held much more vivid story about the antiquity of the Believers movement outside RCC, than we hear today, and his report doesn't say anything for the initiation by Peter Waldo. We should avoid such bias which has occurred in so many historians and histories. What he did was the transfer of the information which he obtained from the interrogation and his experience wi Albigenes, from which we can get the glympse of the other side of the history.

 

I heard there is a prime source of Leonists or Lyonese believers which I have not obtained, but is quite antique as much as Bazaar Heraclides ( 1895) Key of Truth( 1895), and as this Reinerius report. I will pursue it someday.

 

Eliyahu...How could Lateran Council ( 1139) condemn the Waldensians for the rejection of Infant Baptism if Waldensians were started only by Pierre Waldo?

The Lateran Council of 1139 did enforce infant baptism by severe measures, and successive councils condemned the Waldenses for rejecting it. (Wall)...
http://www.geocities.com/I_hate_spam...ses2.html#7ch1

GE

Eliyahu, Do you know the 'background' of this website? Could it perhaps be the South-African based website to my best knowledge the most vehement oppser of Reformation-Christianity possible. I have corresponded with the young medical doctor a few times. He is a devout Roman Catholic, and a pleasant human being, is all I can say. But just maybe he tampere with the 'originals' of his sources a bit? I won't know ...