War is the Enemy of Freedom

I am not hiding anything. I don't really care. I think your "facts" are your opinions. I have no reason to believe you on your facts.

But that's not the point here. The point here is that you don't like Bush.

I have never done anything but that. We disagree on the interpretation of some matters to be sure, but you are not infallible, and the truth is that your "facts" are heavily dependent on a whole series of conspiracy theories combined with a worst possible reading of disputed information.

I find it useless and misguided to call Bush a traitor. I think that kind of paranoia is funny. But that isn't the issue here. The issue here is that you don't like Bush.

Really? All I said was this: Is it really a secret that Poncho has nothing but distaste for this president? He calls him a traitor (without benefit of fact, all the while arguing that charges against him need to be proven by quoting him ... how double standardish). He routinely calls him a liar and attributes nefarious schemes to him. (You can look at my previous couple of posts to verify this. I just cut and pasted it.)

Now, which part of that do you wish to dispute? You are telling me you do like Bush? Or that you didn't ask for charges against you to be proven with quotes? Or that you haven't called Bush a liar and attributed conspiracy theories and treason to him?

If you will tell me which of that you would like to dispute, we can probably assemble the information to prove it.

But when someone claims you don't like Bush, why would you dispute that? How would you dispute it? Are you suddenly embarrassed that someone points it out? I don't get that.

(BTW, you have never debunked any fact I have posted. You have disagreed with my interpretation of some matters, but that's far different than what you claimed. But that's not the point here. Just stay on topic.)

 

Simple.

To keep your mind off the facts that haven't been completely Foxed yet. If people were freely allowed to think Ron Paul may be credible then they might start looking at all the facts and they may find out he's correct and there really is an honest to goodness conspiracy to bring this country down and merge it with a one world government.

People on this board that have constantly tried to steer us all away from all these un-Foxed facts by any means possible who shall remain nameless are scared stiff that they'd all end up with egg on their faces looking like dunces because the obvious truth has indeed dawned on everyone else but them.

 

No, that's what you'd like the point here to be and I'm not going to indulge you by playing along with your meaningless games and deliberate distractions anymore Larry. The real point aka the one you are so desperately trying to avoid is that Ron Paul has plently of credibility, has one of the most if not the most conservative voting records in congress, he still believes in the U.S. Constitution and openly speaks the truth about a conspiracy that has already been proven to exist and that explains why whatever you said or are likely to say about it has already been debunked, thoroughly. The only other point I can think of is that the real point of this discussion scares the daylights of you.

 

What do you mean by "Foxed"? I don't often see that used as a verb so I am not familiar with it here. It is funny that you are all about "thinking freely" but then insist that everyone agree with you. How free is that?

I was responding to the apparent hypocrisy in your post so my point was about the fact that you don't like Bush. If you want to change it to another point, that's fine. But that doesn't change my point.

Then why does he say that the news media parrots the administration and doesn't ask tough questions? We are left with 1) deliberate lying or 2) uninformed. Which is it? I don't watch a lot of news but I watch enough to know that Paul's statement has no credibility.'

I didn't say anything about that. It hasn't been "proven to exist" on the BB by any standard that a reasonable person would agree with. The fact that you are convinced is not the standard of proof.

Furthermore, the subject of my commnet about indiisputable was your dislike of Bush. So again, you are changing the subject.

The funny thing is that it doesn't even make me think twice. I have no fear of it. My life is tied to a higher kingdom. If you want to mess around with the temporary and spend all kinds of time pursuing that, then fine. I would rather not. I read these things briefly to see what people are saying, and then I go about my business. I am not worried, scared, or anything else. I think perhaps the greatest thing that could happen for the church in this country is to see some persecution. I don't desire that, but I think it would greatly strengthen the church and purify it of people just playing games.

 

:laugh: :laugh:

 

Give it up Poncho, Larry won't do anything except to continue to deflect the conversation to keep from talking about Ron Paul. He will not answer your questions directly because he cannot do so without agreeing with you. I think he is related to Carpro.

 

Amen my brother. Very well stated.

 

Then prove that Bush planned to invade Iraq even before 911. That's your soapbox, so get busy with the facts, ole chum.:thumbs:

 

From reading this and other threads, I think it is unfair to say that Carpro or Pastor Larry admire the job Bush is doing. If one is a true conservative with some morals, it is hard not to be furious at Bush and the Republican Congress at the opportunities and time they squandered on an array of issues.

Having said that, the Bible still tells us to pray for those in power, to obey the laws and give respect, as they are there as ordained by God. The same principle goes for when Clinton was President for those with a double standard.

The point is now Bush is President. He is for another 19 months. He needs our prayers. Would I ever vote for him again if he ran? No. But then again, the Democrats can do no better.

This nation elects exactly who we deserve, and really, isnt that person a reflection of our nation. If we want different leaders with a heart for the people, we need as a nation to change our hearts.

 

I'll claim Pastor Larry as a brother anytime.

His passion for the truth is as strong as mine.

Those that post falsehoods and gross exaggerations and spread malicious unfounded gossip can expect to routinely be challenged for their facts.

Their usual tactic in response is misdirection and personal attacks instead of providing facts to back up their statements. This only illustrates the weakness of their positions.

I neither like nor admire some of the positions the President has taken, but lying about them or misstating them would not advance my case. Neither does it advance anyone else's.:godisgood:

 

Actually, my comments in this thread were about Ron Paul until the subject changed. I have probably posted as much on Ron Paul in this thread as anyone, though I haven't gone back to look.

The fact is that the OP's quotation of Ron Paul, if accurate, shows that Ron Paul is out of touch. He is certanly within his rights to disagree with the president. But saying that the press just repeats the adminsitration and doesn't ask tough questions shows that Paul is either dishonest, hopelessly out of touch, or misquoted. I am not sure which.

What questions? You want me to get involved in a stupid discussion about Poncho's view of conspiracy theories? Why? It is not worth the time. I have read PNAC and found it to be very different than what Poncho has said it is about. Furthermore, I find little need to delve deeply into something so trivial and uninteresting when it is supported by so little objective fact.

If that is troubling to you, that's fine. You may not have much of a life, but I do, and spending engaging stupid theories is not my idea of stewardship.

 

That's right Larry, and your 'stewardship' doesn't have any conditions attached to it that would make you personally responsible if you were unknowingly or uncaringly leading the people that trust and rely on you away from some important pertinent information that may effect their lives in a negative way or may lead them down a dangerous path does it?. It simply isin't interesting enough to find out for sure is it?

Larry would have us believe that the 14 states introducing anti-North American Union legislation means there are 14 state legislatures filled with looney conspiracy theorists.

Why? Simple logic of course! George Bush has assured us there is no such thing as a North American Union and the media (that doesn't parrot his words) seems to agree. So, there simply is no "silly absurd crazy wacked out looney conspiracy" to create a North American Union, any "thinking person" can figure that out simply by listening to the "authorities" and taking them at their word!

Larry would have us believe that there are no objective facts or evidence to dispute the official story of 9/11.

Why? Simple logic of course! First, there are no such things as a conspiracy! Nevermind of course the official story of 19 Islamic hijackers taking orders from a man in a cave is itself a conspiracy theory. And Osama Bin Laden is the mastermind behind it all! Nevermind the FBI has admitted they have no hard evidence to connect him with the crime.

But that never stopped the Bush administration from repeatedly convicting him in the public arena. We all know the media doesn't "parrot" that unceasingly, right?

Larry would have us believe that no "thinking person" or true patriots would ever believe that anyone in our government could be involved in such a terrible crime.

Why? Simple logic of course! First, there is no precedent for such "absurd" belief's.

Operation Northwoods.

The USS Liberty.

USS Liberty Memorial

Dead In The Water

Loss Of Liberty

The Gulf Of Tonkin

Operation Gladio

Operation TPAJAX

Well, not much anyways, and then only by those who hate Bush or have a "political axe to grind".


Larry would have us believe that only a few lonely pathetic conspiracy wackos with no lives believe the government is not telling the truth and covering something up about 9/11.

Why? Simple logic of course! If people believed in such "absurd" things we'd have heard about it.

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Zogby International

Poll: More Americans blame Bush for 9/11

My simple logic, Larry's brand of propaganda is no longer working to keep the people quietly subservient to what they rightfully see as a thoroughly corrupt system. Despite his best efforts to serve and enable that system as an "authority" people are waking up and discovering all the facts he would deny them for many and various "reasons".

The time is coming when you may have to answer to your own people for your part in the service of a corrupt system Larry. Hope you can spin your way out that when the time does come. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Right. And the fact that Bin Laden claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks means nothing.

It just goes to show how successfully you and your conspiricy friends have been spreading your nonsense.

"Bush was behind 9/11!"

"Bush is going to invade Iran because of the oil bourse!"

"Bush is going to explode a nuke just off the coast of Virginia!"

"Bush is preparing concentration camps for American citizens!"

Spare us Poncho.

 

No. My mission is to preach the Scripture. I know of nothing in Scripture that addresses American political issues, and therefore I do not preach it nor spend a lot of time worrying about it. There are matters of eternal importance that take my time.

I haven’t seen these bills, nor compared them to what you have said so I can’t comment on them.

I don’t think I have ever said that. But since it appears that truth is not that important to you, that probably doesn’t bother you.

[quoteLarry would have us believe that no "thinking person" or true patriots would ever believe that anyone in our government could be involved in such a terrible crime.[/quote]I don’t think I ever said that either.

Larry has no brand of propaganda. It is patently absurd that you would suggest I do. It shows you don’t actually read and pay attention to what I say.

I have no intention of saving or enabling a system of this type. You know better. I have made it clear that I don’t really care.

I have no part in the service of a corrupt system, as you well know. Your attacks on me are unacceptable and have no place in civil conversation, much less Christian conversation. Believe whatever you want. I don’t really care. But don’t impugn the patriotism or integrity of those who disagree with you.

The fact is that I have better things to worry about than what a corrupt bunch of politicians do. It simply has no eternal significance and no real value.



If you disagree, then fine.

 

:laugh: :laugh:

That's why you have the time to post over 16,000 postings, because you have no time for these matters.

:laugh: :laugh:

 

Which Bin Laden would that be? The fat right handed one in the famous video, or the thin left handed one in the FBI file?

Helping to spread the belief in and trying to marginalize or demonize any opposition of wild unproven (official) conspiracy theories as if they were proven as fact doesn't serve the system that wishes them to be spread as fact?

If you say so.

In other words you can say what you like about me, but not I you? Kinda double standarish isn't it?

I will so long as the available evidence continues to support it. And more keeps showing up everyday.

Yes, you told me that a couple times before. You needn't tell me again, I get the picture. Seriously, I get the picture.

Does that go for everyone Larry? Does that include multiple others here who have constantly impugned the patriotism of anyone that dares to disagree with the 'unitary decidership'? I don't seem to remember you ever telling any of them not to go around impugning integrities.

 

Most of those 16,000 posts are on theology, which does matter. The posts on politics or other matters are on topics which are quick and easy to post on. Surely, Terry, you could have figured that out.

 

I am not sure I say that. The sentence is pretty convuluted. Helping to spread belief in what? The only belief I am trying to spread is belief in Christ. I am not trying to marginalize or demonize anything. I simply pointed out that conspiracy theories are just that.

No. I have never attacked you or impugned your integrity, much less your occupation. You have done that to me.

Yes.

I don't know of any "unitary leadership." Again, by simply reading the news or watching the news, you can figure out very quickly that there is no "unitary leadership." But it includes anyone who does that.

That may be because your memory is faulty. It may be because I haven't seen it (since I read very little here). It may be because it wasn't a discussion I was involved in. It most assuredly is not because I condone it.