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Warren waver on Prop 8 stuns leaders

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ps104_33, Apr 11, 2009.

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  1. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Let's read Matthew 26:


    14 Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests 15and said, "What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?" And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. 16And from that moment he sought an opportunity to betray him.

    17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?" 18He said, "Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, 'The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.'" 19And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.

    20 When it was evening, he reclined at table with the twelve. 21And as they were eating, he said, "Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me." 22And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, "Is it I, Lord?" 23He answered, "He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born." 25Judas, who would betray him, answered, "Is it I, Rabbi?" He said to him, "You have said so."

    26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body." 27And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you, 28for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom."

    30 And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives. 31Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of me this night. For it is written, 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered him, "Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away." 34 Jesus said to him, "Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times." 35 Peter said to him, "Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!" And all the disciples said the same.

    36 Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples, "Sit here, while I go over there and pray." 37And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me." 39And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will." 40And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping. And he said to Peter, "So, could you not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." 42Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, "My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done." 43And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again. 45Then he came to the disciples and said to them, "Sleep and take your rest later on. See, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand."

    47 While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, "The one I will kiss is the man; seize him." 49And he came up to Jesus at once and said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" And he kissed him. 50Jesus said to him, "Friend, do what you came to do." Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him.


    Now, from what I read in there, Judas was scheming to betray Jesus - he had already taken a payment to turn Jesus over to them. Then he sat and ate with Jesus - even going so far as to take the bread and cup and then denying that he would betray Jesus. Finally we see that the "betrayer" (was he a betrayer if he had not already sinned?) kissed Jesus and betrayed Him. What is the first word Jesus said to Judas? "Friend". He still called him "friend" even though Judas had just betrayed him.

    How can one say that Judas was not actively living in sin?
     
    #61 annsni, Apr 16, 2009
  2. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Oh, but this is the Baptist Board, where the pharisees gather to to point the finger of accusation and hurl the charge of "heretic!" at their brothers and sisters.


    Posted with sadness.


    :godisgood:
     
    #62 Alive in Christ, Apr 16, 2009
  3. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Annsni...

    Its really amazing, isnt it? I mean, you and I and others are not giving these dear ones our *opinion*.

    No. We are...posting...the...SCRIPTURES...that show them to be in error regarding this manner, and yet they just dig their heels in and continue to "kick against the goads".

    Very saddening


    :godisgood:
     
    #63 Alive in Christ, Apr 16, 2009
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree. I understand the concern of being very intimate friends (not sexual but emotional) with those who are not believers (not just homosexuals but any unbeliever), and I do not think that as believers, we can have that kind of friendship that we can with brothers and sisters in Christ but I also do not think that God wants us to stay away from them at all. I posted in a much earlier post a long story about this and just how differently believers can be friends from believers and unbelievers. So I do understand the concern, but I see God using us through our friendships with the ungodly to bring some to Him. I don't think many people came to the Lord outside of a saved friend speaking the truth to them as they were unsaved. Yeah, some came to knowledge of Christ through a stranger or a speaker but most come to know Christ through.....a friend. A friend who was bold enough and gracious enough to befriend a sinner.
     
    #64 annsni, Apr 16, 2009
  5. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    You are taking SCRIPTURES out of context. Jesus was at Levi's (Matthew) house. At this point Matthew was a believer. Matthew was holding a feast at his house so that he could introduce his old friends (the tax collectors and sinners) to Jesus. Matthew was bringing these sinners to the Lord so that they may come to believe as he did. These were not friends of Jesus, but people brought to him to hear His Words.
     
    #65 matt wade, Apr 16, 2009
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Did anyone post this passage?

    John 12
    4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
    5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
    6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.​

    HankD​
     
    #66 HankD, Apr 16, 2009
  7. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    So, they all knew at the time that Judas was a theif? They did not come to this determination after the fact that he had sold Christ out for a small chunk of change.

    Okay.......
     
    #67 ShotGunWillie, Apr 16, 2009
  8. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    We call that "RW'ing" somebody.
     
    #68 ShotGunWillie, Apr 16, 2009
  9. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:14
     
    #69 ShotGunWillie, Apr 16, 2009
  10. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    There was a sect amongst the Jewish community, "spiritual men" who said that Christ was the friend of sinners too...

    Just saying.....
     
    #70 ShotGunWillie, Apr 16, 2009
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    God knew.

    HankD
     
    #71 HankD, Apr 17, 2009
  12. ShotGunWillie

    ShotGunWillie New Member

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    Good point, which has already been brought into the discussion and also does not prove that Judas was openly living in sin.

    Like I have stated, no one has provided any information that shows that Christ was friends with people who openly sinned.
     
    #72 ShotGunWillie, Apr 17, 2009
  13. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Judas wasn't "openly" living in sin

    Judas falls into the modern day catagory known as "Con Artist"

    Whats the difference between a con artist and a regular artist, you ask??

    Well-----as far as thievery is concerned------a regular artist would be someone along the lines of Bonnie and Clyde-----they openly robbed banks at gun point----and when they left the bank---you knew it was Bonnie and Clyde who "did it"

    A con artist has the ability to rob you of your money---and yet still be able to sit down and eat dinner with you and you with him---he knows he's got your money---and you know your money is gone---that someone took it---but you don't know its him and you will buy him dinner---he just got through "taking you to the cleaners" and you feel good enough to buy his meal

    The only person who had Judas figured out was Jesus-----he fooled everyone but Jesus!!! Judas was a expert hypocrite-----a hypocrite is someone who is lost but whos acting like he's saved------verses a backslider--who is a person who is saved but whos acting like he's lost!!!!

    Now-----the Bible says that Jesus is a "friend of sinners"------well-----He would have to be------or He would have no friends at all!!!!! He was the only one around who WASN'T a sinner----everybody else was----so that whether you were classed as a friend or a foe of Jesus---you are a sinner------and if He wanted to eat breakfast with you this morning at Cracker Barrell--------He would be eating with a sinner no matter who He ate with!!!!! No matter who He was friends with----that friend was a sinner!!! If He had lunch with Billy Graham----He would be eating lunch with "Billy Graham---the sinner"--------just as well as if Jesus were eating lunch with Saddam Hussian---He would be eating lunch with "Saddam Hussian---the sinner"-------see??????
     
    #73 blackbird, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2009
  14. Spinach

    Spinach New Member

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    I only have one little thing to say---I'm thankful for Jesus! How he loves and befriends everyone, I'll never know! Such love! Such grace! He's amazing!

    That said, I could not and would not befriend a homosexual. Give the gospel to them? yes. Counsel? yes. Befriend. No. However, I don't suppose I could be friends with a porno addict, murderer, pedophile, etc. While lying, cheating on taxes, etc are all sins, they don't affect me like hanging around with someone in open, sexual sin. Will it affect me for sure? I don't know. Do I want to take that chance? No.

    Right or wrong, those are my feelings on the subject.
     
    #74 Spinach, Apr 18, 2009
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Sin is sin. However, that being said I don't recall that the Bible records the direct action of God in destruction of cities as the result of gluttony, cheating on taxes, etc., etc.. He did destroy the sodomite cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. When Sodom by the Sea slides off into the Pacific ocean perhaps we will understand what a grievous sin homosexuality and the approval of homosexuality is.
     
    #75 OldRegular, Apr 19, 2009
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Your question was, "What is the difference" between someone who is a sexual deviant and one who cheats on his taxes. The implied answer was that there is no difference, and you would treat all the same, though I doubt you would let one you knew to be a sexual deviant babysit your children. (So you wouldn't treat all the same.)

    Christians are to have no close friendships with non-Christians, or those who are Christians and are known to be actively involved in immoral practices.

    Be not deceived, evil communications corrupt good manners. Paul said be not decieved, because many are, especially in this respect.
     
    #76 Aaron, Apr 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2009
  17. kfinks

    kfinks Member
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    More to it than just the above:

    Ezekiel 16:49-50:


    Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
     
    #77 kfinks, Apr 20, 2009
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