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Was Adam a Calvinist?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 1, 2006.

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  1. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    So, are you asking if Adam was predestined to sin?
     
    #81 El_Guero, Jul 2, 2006
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    We are represented as trees so who is to say that the Tree of Life was as the other trees. It says the trees came up from the earth but The Tree of Life was spoken of differently. It was in the midst of the Trees. So I still say there has only been one way to get eternal life in this world and that is Jesus. I know that 2 have accended to Heaven but that was for the Glory of God and for a purpose other than just eternal life. I still believe the Tree was Jesus.
     
    #82 Brother Bob, Jul 2, 2006
  3. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Bob how did Abraham go through Jesus for eternal life?
     
    #83 J. Jump, Jul 2, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Fountain was opened for the house of David and half to the hinder sea and half to the former sea. God had made a promise to them and they died with faith that He would and when Jesus died His blood flowed to them also for their sins had only been stayed from year to year and that was a shadow of the real thing that was to come and that was Jesus Christ. I believe Him to be the Savior of the World.
     
    #84 Brother Bob, Jul 2, 2006
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: I suppose just because God gave special emphasis to one tree as being different in nature and effect than the others. God being God, I don’t see a problem with that. If He decides to designate only one tree as the tree of Life, and that by partaking of that tree it will grant and maintain ones eternal life, why should I even wonder about it?



    HP: Follow the logic. “Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


    And now are we to suppose that Adam, a created being created by ‘God the Son,’ would have been simply a “brother of His” and the tree of Life “only a tree” to Adam before the fall? How do you get what you are implying from the facts of the nature of Christ and who He is, and the information as to the eternal effects of partaking of that unusual tree in the midst of the garden, as being ‘just another tree?” I want to understand you, but you are not making any sense to me.
     
    #85 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 2, 2006
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: In a Spiritual sense I agree, and we must still partake of Him just as Adam did of the fruit of the tree of Life. “Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
    Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
     
    #86 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 2, 2006
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    And now Brother Bob, I have a question to ask you. Had Adam partaken of the tree of Life in the Garden? You say it was Christ. I want you to know that the way you answer this will determine whether or not you are indeed placing yourself in a precarious theological position.
     
    #87 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2006
  8. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    How is taking what Christ said to be true a precarious position?

    He told us that He is the only way. If He told the truth, how is my faith in Him precarious. Maybe I just misunderstand.
     
    #88 El_Guero, Jul 2, 2006
  9. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    What?

    Genesis 15 tells us how Abraham was saved, and Jesus is never mentioned there.

    1After this, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: "Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward." 2But Abram said, "O Sovereign Lord, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?" 3And Abram said, "You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir." 4Then the word of the Lord came to him: "This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir." 5He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars, if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." 6Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
     
    #89 J. Jump, Jul 2, 2006
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Christ is the only way for a sinner to inherit eternal life, period. That in itself is not a precarious position to take. If one believes in OSAS, based upon the notion that if one is granted or given eternal life he cannot loose it, and one believes Adam before the fall partook of the tree of Life and that tree was indeed Christ, THEN you have placed yourself in a possible precarious position theologically. If you say that Christ had partaken of the tree of Life, and you hold to OSAS, you cannot be consistent and believe he fell from the hope of eternal life, for it would have been eternally written in stone before the fall at the moment of partaking of the tree of Life. Adam of necessity would have to have been OSAS and the fall was of no real eternal consequence. Savy?
     
    #90 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jul 2, 2006
  11. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    In the same light that Jesus was older than his mother yet his mothers child. Jesus was older than David yet from the root of David. Also, Jesus is the son of GOD. Adam is also called the son of GOD.

    It's like taking penicillin when you don't have the desease. It's just another pill.

    Penicillin is only the cure when you have the desease! :thumbs:
     
    #91 LeBuick, Jul 3, 2006
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...the same way you and I did.
     
    #92 webdog, Jul 3, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    They all died in faith but believing the Messiah would come. Christ first came to His own and came to fulfill the things written concerning Him in the books of Moses and the prophets and pslams. peace :)

    FAITH!!!
     
    #93 Brother Bob, Jul 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2006
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I am missing what the question is HP? peace :)
     
    #94 Brother Bob, Jul 3, 2006
  15. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Webdog go back to post No. 84 or 89 can't remember which. Abraham was saved when he believed what God was saying about his descendants.

    Brother Bob I agree that Abraham knew a Messiah was coming, but the Bible shows clearly in Genesis 15 that Abraham was "saved" not because of his faith in a comming Messiah, but he was "saved" because he believed God and God's promise of un-numerable descendants.

    To say otherwise is to contradict the clear teaching of Scripture.
     
    #95 J. Jump, Jul 3, 2006
  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    JJ;
    It also included the Messiah or Deliverer that Abraham had faith in. He had faith in God in all things. peace
     
    #96 Brother Bob, Jul 3, 2006
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
     
    #97 webdog, Jul 3, 2006
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    HP;
    I find where God had the trees of the fruits that were allowed to come from the ground. The Tree of Life and The Tree of Knowledge I believe came from Heaven and were in the midst of the other trees. Now the Tree of Life had fruit that was the "fruit of righteous" and I suppose if Adam had of eaten of that tree first he never would of eaten of the Tree of Knowledge. Even though he was without sin I don't know if he knew why? If he had of eaten of the Tree of Life then he would of known and would of been righteous so therefore he could not disobey God. peace :praying:
     
    #98 Brother Bob, Jul 3, 2006
  19. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    But that's not what saved him. Read Genesis 15. Your belief does not square with Scripture. And we know which one is right. How can you deny something that is so clear? That is amazing.



    That's a great Scripture and absolutely true. However the context is not eternal salvation. The context of chapter 4 is the message that Peter delivered after healing the lame man, which is the same message that he delivered in Acts 2. It's the message of the kingdom, not the message of eternal salvation.

    Two separate messages that must be kept separate if we are going to understand Scripture properly.
     
    #99 J. Jump, Jul 3, 2006
  20. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I don't know about you but I believe when Jesus shed His blood it also covered those before His coming. I think God then fulfilled His promise to Israel that the Messiah would come. Even though Abraham was saved he still lacked something to complete the salvation as the souls under the altar of God without their white robes which come from the blood of the Lamb. Again, God then fulfilled His promise to Israel.peace :flower:
     
    #100 Brother Bob, Jul 3, 2006
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